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Old 08-12-2009, 05:15 PM   #1
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Default installed font -- unicode?

I have to confess I followed Valloric's guide to change the system-installed fonts on my reader about two hours after owning it, and I can't remember much about the default font it comes with, but I'm wondering if it is a full unicode-supporting font.

The reason I ask is that I want to make an ePub for public consumption that has a lot of unicode symbols in it (from Greek letters to mathematical operators, etc...), which works fine on my 505 without embedding fonts, but will it work for others still using the default fonts? Or am I going to have to embed unicode fonts in it?

Thanks in advance.
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Old 08-13-2009, 01:10 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by frabjous View Post
I have to confess I followed Valloric's guide to change the system-installed fonts on my reader about two hours after owning it, and I can't remember much about the default font it comes with, but I'm wondering if it is a full unicode-supporting font.
No, it is not. It doesn't support eastern-european languages for sure (I know that myself), nor cyrilic (judging by forum posts by people who want to know how to add cyrilic support), nor asian languages (forum posts again).
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Old 08-13-2009, 03:09 AM   #3
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The book I'm working on is mostly text, but it has some math in it: lots of Greek letters used as variables, HTML codes ℵ ∞ ⋅ √ × -- anyone know about any of these offhand?

Incidentally, does anyone know about the legality of embedding Microsoft's Core Fonts for the Web in a (freely distributed, non-DRM) ePub? The EULA didn't exactly make it clear...
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Old 08-13-2009, 05:43 AM   #4
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That is not allowed, the license agreement says you have to distribute the complete package including the eula, so you can't embed a single font.
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Old 08-13-2009, 10:29 AM   #5
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I could zip the EULA together with (all) the fonts in the ePub, but still, you may be right.
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Old 08-13-2009, 04:05 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by frabjous View Post
The book I'm working on is mostly text, but it has some math in it: lots of Greek letters used as variables, HTML codes ℵ ∞ ⋅ √ × -- anyone know about any of these offhand?
I put my file on an SD card and tried it out on the display model at my local Target -- all these symbols worked, so I guess I don't need to worry about embedding a font after all.
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Old 08-17-2009, 06:07 AM   #7
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You can't embed the default Windows fonts. They're not property of Microsoft but rather Bitstream which only gives single-user single-computer licenses. Go search out free fonts. Wikipedia will get you started. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_so...code_typefaces - DejaVu (A variation of Bitstream's Vera set looks pretty good).
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Old 08-17-2009, 12:07 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by darkpoet View Post
You can't embed the default Windows fonts. They're not property of Microsoft but rather Bitstream which only gives single-user single-computer licenses.
Well, in my case, the point turned out to be moot, as I've already explained. I don't need to embed any fonts.

But for the sake of others who may be in a similar situation, could you say a bit more about how you reached these conclusions? My own research on these fonts does not seem to match what you say.

Anyway, here is the EULA from microsoft.

Some highlights:

Quote:
"You may reproduce and distribute an unlimited number of copies of the SOFTWARE PRODUCT; provided that each copy shall be a true and complete copy, including all copyright and trademark notices, and shall be accompanied by a copy of this EULA..."
Later in the same document, it says:

Quote:
You may not rename, edit or create any derivative works from the SOFTWARE PRODUCT, other than subsetting when embedding them in documents.
These two statements don't exactly agree with each other, but together they do strongly suggest that some level of embedding and free distributing is allowed. I'm not advocating anyone do this, and I'm not going to, but it simply doesn't seem clear cut.

I also can't find anywhere that confirms your claim about Bitstream owning them, although I can find numerous websites claiming that Microsoft owns them. I can provide links if need be. There's some info out there that at one point, MS pulled them and licensed them to Ascender to sell the Type1 and OpenType versions (read the comments!) on their behalf. So color me confused.

Last edited by frabjous; 08-17-2009 at 12:11 PM.
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Old 08-25-2009, 01:49 AM   #9
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First, let me say I assumed this was about the Windows XP fonts.

The simplest way to find the owner of a particular font on your system is to check the FONTS folder and double-click on the name of the font.

Certain typefaces are obviously owned by Monotype, like Monotype Corsiva, and even taken-for-granted ones like Times New Roman, Garamond, Arial, and Courier New, Symbol. I'm not sure about what others are included...

Including an unaltered font means including the original un-named TTF file...

Embedding as a subset probably refers to PDF/DOC documents that break the font up and uses only the characters needed to read it. I notice it doesn't say anything about the right to distribute these files publicly.

Here is Monotypes official page that clearly states you need a license to embed their fonts in eBooks:

http://www.fonts.com/FontPackages/_e...tSolutions.htm
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Old 08-25-2009, 09:50 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by frabjous View Post
Incidentally, does anyone know about the legality of embedding Microsoft's Core Fonts for the Web in a (freely distributed, non-DRM) ePub? The EULA didn't exactly make it clear...
Quote:
Originally Posted by darkpoet View Post
First, let me say I assumed this was about the Windows XP fonts.
I said what fonts I was talking about. I don't know what you meant by "the Windows XP fonts", but I think the Core Fonts for the Web, at least the new ones, are different.

Quote:
The simplest way to find the owner of a particular font on your system is to check the FONTS folder and double-click on the name of the font.
On my computer, for Georgia, it says "Typeface and data copyright 1996 Microsoft Corporation. All Rights Reserved."

I tried this on another computer, and there it did not list an Owner. It listed Carter & Cone as the "Designer/Foundry", but that doesn't mean they own it. Under "Font Embeddability" it says "Editable", but I don't know what that means.

EDIT: OK, Microsoft has a description here:
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/l.../cc958234.aspx
But it's still unclear. It says the font may be temporarily installed on the other system. But what does that mean in this context? Embedded in an ePub it doesn't have to be "installed" to use it at all. But I suppose I am giving the would-be extractor a chance to permanenly install it, so I guess that's a no-go, then?

Quote:
Certain typefaces are obviously owned by Monotype, like Monotype Corsiva, and even taken-for-granted ones like Times New Roman, Garamond, Arial, and Courier New, Symbol. I'm not sure about what others are included...
I had in mind things like Georgia, Verdana, and Trebuchet MS.

Quote:
Including an unaltered font means including the original un-named TTF file...
This is not so clear. Somewhere else is speaks explicitly of the .exe and .sit files that the bundles are distributed in.

Last edited by frabjous; 08-25-2009 at 10:08 AM.
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Old 09-04-2009, 05:31 AM   #11
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I forgot about this thread... but in the end, any lawyer would give you the simplest advice: don't do anything unless it's legal without a doubt.
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