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Old 11-08-2010, 08:56 PM   #91
c861556
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Anything to do with the privacy issues that others are complaining about for the Kindle? No.
Does it single out Kindles? No.
Does it even mention eBook readers? No.
Are you trolling? Yes.
Last time I checked, I was responding to a very particular argument that claimed that "most of us are 'nobodies' the government and big business is indifferent toward", with the obvious implication that any effect of Amazon assembling data from our accounts could only be negligible.

Of course, last time I checked, apologist rhetoric trying to defame rather than address the actual argument was the very definition of "trolling", so forgive me for not holding my breath for you to start discussing these things in a less accusatory manner.

Oh, and to answer one of your previous posts, you can't simply substitute Amazon for any other online vendor. It's one thing for a computer hardware retailer to leak some of its data. It is something completely different for a major online bookstore to do that. As TIME points out, our reading purchases can be extremely incriminatory:

"One of the ACLU's anonymous clients — an atheist who happens to work with a lot of religious people — does not want Amazon to reveal that she bought the books God Is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything and The God Delusion. Another client does not want Amazon to reveal that it shipped her books that are critical of the President, including Obama Zombies: How the Liberal Machine Brainwashed My Generation."

So even though I generally like the company and I most certainly like its product, I still think it is perfectly reasonable to suggest that merely liking and buying a product shouldn't force us to sacrifice some our privacy in order to gain access some of its most basic functions. I guess you can call my conviction "trolling".
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Old 11-08-2010, 09:14 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by c861556 View Post
Last time I checked, I was responding to a very particular argument that claimed that "most of us are 'nobodies' the government and big business is indifferent toward", with the obvious implication that any effect of Amazon assembling data from our accounts could only be negligible.
"The federal district court rightly ruled that North Carolina's actions violated the First Amendment as well as certain provisions of the Video Privacy Protection Act, the 1988 law that prevents unauthorized disclosure of video-sale records. The court warned that if North Carolina were able to get individualized information about Amazon customers, it would have a chilling effect on their decisions about what to buy."

Mmm... Looks like the federal court also doesn't think that it would be a good idea if this data was released?

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Originally Posted by c861556 View Post
Of course, last time I checked, apologist rhetoric trying to defame rather than address the actual argument was the very definition of "trolling", so forgive me for not holding my breath for you to start discussing these things in a less accusatory manner.
You cherry picked the quotes and conveniently ignored parts just to provide a one sided argument against Amazon from an article that doesn't even mention the Kindle or eBook readers. Amazon even tried to protect your privacy but thats not good enough I guess. Considering this is an extremely hot topic in the Kindle realm, I'd say yes your actions are still an attempt at trolling.

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Originally Posted by c861556 View Post
Oh, and to answer one of your previous posts, you can't simply substitute Amazon for any other online vendor. It's one thing for a computer hardware retailer to leak some of its data. It is something completely different for a major online bookstore to do that. As TIME points out, our reading purchases can be extremely incriminatory
Amazon didn't reveal this information. They sued to prevent the release. The federal court agreed with Amazon.

Would you prefer that they didn't keep any records at all? I'll let you work out a suitable method of handling delivery, returns and warranty without any form of PI or trackable IDs.
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Old 11-08-2010, 10:43 PM   #93
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OK, before I get called a tinfoiler: I'm not. Trust me.

e.g., I have no problem with their collecting relevant data, such as my purchasing history. I also have a lot of respect for Amazon as a company.


But I do have a few questions about the thread that I'd love to have clarified, if anyone has the time.

1. What data are they collecting, specifically, today? On the K3?

I saw the code in the first parts of the thread, but then a later post suggests that code is no longer there.

2. Some posts and code(?) suggest that even if one has turned off the option of backing up our notes and highlights, they're still sent to Amazon...? If so, why?

3. If it's true that my tower locations are recorded and sent to Amazon, can anyone explain why?

4. Does this data collection include my notes, marks, and access times to me personal documents?

I'll put the relevant section of the current user agreement here for reference, since I've seen it referenced, but not posted:
Information Received. The Software will provide Amazon with data about your Kindle and its interaction with the Service (such as available memory, up-time, log files, and signal strength). The Software will also provide Amazon with information related to the Digital Content on your Kindle and Other Devices and your use of it (such as last page read and content archiving). Annotations, bookmarks, notes, highlights, or similar markings you make using your Kindle or Reading Application and other information you provide may be stored on servers that are located outside the country in which you live. Any information we receive is subject to the Amazon.com privacy notice located at www.amazon.com/privacy.
If the "may" means "only if you chose that option, then that's cool.

Also, while I trust Amazon and the US courts, is the information stored in servers in other countries just as safe?

Thanks!

Last edited by Piper_; 11-08-2010 at 10:46 PM.
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Old 11-09-2010, 12:57 AM   #94
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Originally Posted by Tiersten View Post
Mmm... Looks like the federal court also doesn't think that it would be a good idea if this data was released? You cherry picked the quotes and conveniently ignored parts just to provide a one sided argument against Amazon...
My "cherry-picked" highlight of the linked (you're welcome) article clearly pointed out that North Carolina was "slapped down" by a federal court last week. Once again, given that my only concerns are privacy related, you seem to be surprisingly keen on portraying me as anti-Amazon. Let me try my newly obtained imaginary tinfoil hat on and ask you, are you a stockholder or an employee?

Putting ad hominem attacks aside, what will happen if by any chance another court decides to make a ruling against the company? Will you admit your mistake or will you just shrug and go about your day? It just seems that you care more about Amazon than you do about the value of privacy and its importance for other people. And the point stands: permanently storing that kind of personal data without explicit consent and no possible way of removing it may have serious repercussions not only for some theoretical overseas political dissidents, but on ordinary law-abiding citizens like you and me. Just because this particular disaster was averted, it doesn't mean that the next one will be.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiersten View Post
Would you prefer that they didn't keep any records at all? I'll let you work out a suitable method of handling delivery, returns and warranty without any form of PI or trackable IDs.
...
Latitude=37.321441
Longitude=-122.030612
...
HDR Latitude=37.334167
HDR Longitude=-122.031113
...
content type=ebook
...
publication date=4/25/2008
...
length=MobiPosition_ 211399
last access=1980-01-01 00.00.00 +0000
last read position=MobiPosition_ 129777
...


Is that what the above log's entries are there for? Warranty repairs? And I thought I made myself pretty clear: the only thing I prefer is for them to either not to restrict the functionality of my own, legally purchased and fully paid for device, or to give me at least some basic form of direct control over my own personal data. Coincidentally, this seemingly straightforward and reasonable wish also makes me a troll, a lunatic, a malevolent cherry-picker, and, I assume, some kind of anti-corporatist Antichrist. Live and learn.
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Old 11-09-2010, 01:25 AM   #95
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Originally Posted by c861556 View Post
Putting ad hominem attacks aside, what will happen if by any chance another court decides to make a ruling against the company? Will you admit your mistake or will you just shrug and go about your day? It just seems that you care more about Amazon than you do about the value of privacy and its importance for other people.
I've freely admitted that Amazon store your data and even in the case of the Kindle will track what you're reading and various other pieces of information in the diagnostic logs. Do I personally mind that they know what I'm reading? No. I'm currently reading a selection of free Sherlock Holmes books along with some of the special offer freebies (One is some paramedic guy that I can't quite remember the name of) if you're curious. Do I mind that others might be bothered? No. It is their Kindle and their information.

What I'm objecting to is your idea that the article you linked to is relevant to this thread itself. It has absolutely nothing to do with the Kindle or any other eReader. You could do exactly the same article about B&N in the place of Amazon. They keep track of what you're buying and have previously bought. They've even got a eReader device. How about Borders? They still exist in the US. Their overseas operations have pretty much all been closed down. This thread has enough useless information and rumours mixed in with real facts that polluting is just going to make it even more painful to read.

I've wasted enough time with your pointless article anyway. I'm sure you must have B&N stock or something. Am I right? Yeah. Have fun with that.

Last edited by Tiersten; 11-09-2010 at 01:32 AM.
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Old 11-09-2010, 09:12 AM   #96
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Can someone please tell me what I have to do to aply the patch?
where do I find /usr/bin/showlog on the kindle?
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Old 11-09-2010, 11:49 AM   #97
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It's worthy of note that the reason Amazon sued NC in the first place is that the state wanted purchaser information as well as the books they purchased. Amazon turned over the list of all items sold in NC - without the customer information - so that the state could add up all the purchases, add up the sales tax remitted, and see that Amazon was complying with the state's requirements about collecting sales tax. When the state said "that's not good enough, we want the individual purchasers and the records of what each one purchased", Amazon went to the mat to avoid giving up that information.

Honestly, I'm far more worried about Microsoft than Amazon.com when it comes to privacy.
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Old 11-09-2010, 11:51 AM   #98
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I also just got a Kindle 3. Have jailbroken it and now want to remove the big brother feature. Like post before this one I can't find out how to do it. My understanding of the first post to this message is that it refers to linux (not an expert by any means). Unfortunately i don't have access to a linux machine at all. Any way of making these changes using windows 7?

Thanks

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Hmm I think you are not getting what to do ... your Kindle runs Linux and those are alterations made to the software on your Kindle.
Nope that's what I thought (didn't express myself well in my first post), thing is when I plug the Kindle to my desktop and browse the files on the Kindle, I cannot see directory/file: /usr/bin/showlog. I presume that is because I am connecting it to a Windows 7 pc and if I connect it to a linux system I will be able to see the file on the Kindle and be able to change the relevent line? - would that be correct? - If my understanding is correct in there any way at all (an emulater?) that I can see the file on the Kindle via Windows 7 - drag it across, make the change and copy it back?

Struggling with this so appreciate any advice.

Thanks

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Old 12-09-2010, 10:02 AM   #99
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Help!

OK - now I am lost. Installed ubuntu plugged in Kindle and cannot find any file called "showlog" - anywhere.

I have a Kindle 3 - 3.0.2 software - is that the problem? or I am still looking in the wrong place?


Appreciate some assistance with this.

Thanks

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Old 12-09-2010, 11:23 AM   #100
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How many of you paranoia freaks have a gmail account?

Privacy is dead anyways.

Google, Amazon, and Apple control most of the information because we traded it all away for apps and sale prices, all we can really do is hope they're benevolent overlords.
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Old 12-09-2010, 11:26 AM   #101
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Also, on my scorecard, Tiersten is several million points ahead of c861556.
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Old 12-10-2010, 02:54 PM   #102
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does anyone know how to do this for K3?
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Old 12-13-2010, 11:35 AM   #103
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Can anyone assume why Amazon collects location-based data? They get the location via geotargeting, don't they?
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Old 12-15-2010, 12:13 PM   #104
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I use my Kindle (WiFi) a lot to read my work documents that I transfer to Kindle by sending them to <user>@free.kindle.com. Yesterday one small document in mobi format (converted with Calibre) bounced with a message that it cannot be delivered because there is something wrong with it. It was strange because no limits were exceeded and the file was in mobi format. I decided to investigate it later and copied the file via USB instead. Today I tried to replicate the problem and now it works fine, so maybe it was only a temporary glitch.

However, reading how Amazon has actively censored some books I have become suspicious. The failed document was an extract from a medical research that among other things included questions about patient's relatives and sex life in the same paragraph. What if Amazon is experimenting with filtering objectionable texts also in the e-mail conversation tool?

Using USB cable is a hassle, so I am curious if there could be an easy way to transfer mobi documents wirelessly to Kindle directly excluding Amazon servers? My device is already jail-breaked.

And as WiFi has to be enabled in this situation, how could I make sure that the device is not reporting back to Amazon about my activities. I am a kind of a person who hates when someone is looking over my shoulder to see what I am reading.
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Old 12-15-2010, 06:07 PM   #105
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Using USB cable is a hassle, so I am curious if there could be an easy way to transfer mobi documents wirelessly to Kindle directly excluding Amazon servers? My device is already jail-breaked.
Yes, it is possible. Look at the usbnetwork hack, specifically its SSH abilities. Basically, the idea is that you turn an SSH server on the Kindle on and send anything to your Kindle directly via SSH. On the client side (ie your computer), you can either use a command line (Linux and Mac OS families typically come with built-in CLI SSH and RSYNC client), a graphical SSH/RSYNC (I believe it is available for any platform instantly by a Google search) or an SSH Calibre plugin (here on MR in Calibre plugins section), depending on your skills and preferences.
Quote:
And as WiFi has to be enabled in this situation, how could I make sure that the device is not reporting back to Amazon about my activities. I am a kind of a person who hates when someone is looking over my shoulder to see what I am reading.
I am not sure but I guess this thread is pretty much what is known about this...

Last edited by janvanmaar; 12-15-2010 at 06:14 PM.
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