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Old 06-14-2009, 02:57 PM   #16
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So why cripple it to such a large extent?
I guess Amazon makes such a special effort to cripple PDF to be sure that it will not concurrence their own Ebook format.

They will probably sell textbooks in their own format, on their own store. They probably hope that limiting PDF support will deters you or the textbook publisher from using/selling PDF textbook.

It's really a shame, because hardware wise the device have everything it need to display PDF nicely, and the price is good compared to current big screen readers. I hope someone will hacks it and add a good PDF reader, it would be great.
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Old 06-14-2009, 03:36 PM   #17
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1. The cost of manufacturing is not the cost to produce.

2. Amazon has to walk a line with publishers. It wants access to books and it wants conversions. If publishers are nervous about how users might use pdfs they may have pressured Amazon into less than full use of the features. The Sony is inherently crippled by its size. irex doesn't have to worry about its relationships with publishers.

Amazon's managers are not stupid. They don't want the Kindle to be expensive and they do want it to be ubiquitous. Look what happened with the music industry - we are still in the incipient stages of digitizing books.
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Old 06-14-2009, 03:51 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by katysax View Post
1. The cost of manufacturing is not the cost to produce.

2. Amazon has to walk a line with publishers. It wants access to books and it wants conversions. If publishers are nervous about how users might use pdfs they may have pressured Amazon into less than full use of the features. The Sony is inherently crippled by its size. irex doesn't have to worry about its relationships with publishers.

Amazon's managers are not stupid. They don't want the Kindle to be expensive and they do want it to be ubiquitous. Look what happened with the music industry - we are still in the incipient stages of digitizing books.
I have no idea how this makes any sense....

But I think Faenad is right: Amazon is doing as little as they have to, to implement PDF.

It is likely, that the only only reason they are doing it, is because the newspaper and textbook publishers twisted their arm. So, Amazon said "yes," and then crippled it, so it doesn't compete with their sales.

This is why, unless there is a real backlash from consumers, I don't believe Amazon will give us good support for PDF.
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Old 06-14-2009, 11:37 PM   #19
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this is most effective way.
buy KDX and then cancel order and tell CSR that the software doesn't meet expectation.


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My Kindle DX is arriving on Monday, but I am already regretting the purchase, and may return it.

I purchased it for PDF, and for the larger screen.

I find the K2 too small to replicate reading a book: screen-changes every few seconds are annoying and distracting, IMO.

So the bigger screen is a winner, hands down. The PDF capability was the other main factor for me: I like PDF, better than any other format.

BUT, Amazon appears to have crippled the device, as far as PDF goes:

1. TOC doesn't work! - You'd think if they aimed this at students and textbooks, a TOC would be kind of important to get to the required chapters;

2. Hyperlinks don't work! This one is REALLY BIG, IMO: Most textbooks have footnotes. If you can't link to them, finding them can be a real chore. This by itself would be a reason not to take the Kindle DX seriously as a textbook reader, and to discourage potential purchasers;

3. Dictionary function not available! Again, this is just stupid, for a device which is supposedly aimed at an audience intent on learning. If anything, Amazon should have introduced custom dictionary capability in the DX;

4. Can't zoom! So, if you have a detailed graph, or a small print table, you can be excused from knowing what the content is during exams, because your cutting-edge studying device from Amazon can't zoom;

5. All PDFs filed under Personal Documents! Why?!! So, when you are looking for a title by an author in a hurry, you can never be sure where exactly it would be, among your 3000 PDFs, txt, and mobi files.

It's just amazing! You'd think, in these tough economic times, Amazon would be able to hire someone with an IQ of over 60, to implement PDF support on their new large screen device.

My question is, would enough whining make Amazon change their ways, and give us decent PDF support in the DX?

If so, maybe there should be a concerted effort. Let's flood kindle-feedback@amazon.com with complaints!

Or is it a lost battle, and should I simply return the Kindle DX, that could have been...?
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Old 06-15-2009, 05:22 PM   #20
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It's coming today....

I'll have to decide what to do it.

Anyone else thinking of returning theirs?
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Old 06-15-2009, 05:58 PM   #21
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I remember when a cheap pocket calculation cost several hundred dollars.
You must be really really old I'm not so young myself (not quite old yet though) and I remember buying a Casio calculator for high school for about $20)
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Old 06-15-2009, 07:55 PM   #22
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Anyone else thinking of returning theirs?
Nope. I love the screen size and there's no way I can justify the cost of an iRex.
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Old 06-15-2009, 08:49 PM   #23
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I decided against returning it.

PDF support SUCKS but it is better than nothing (and I'm not paying for an iRex) and reading other books is still awfully nice (unless you have to type something, which I rarely do.)
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Old 06-16-2009, 03:15 AM   #24
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From another thread it looks like some are starting to return their DX and go back to their 6" reader.
Others here cannot go back to a 6" screen. I hope some of you find the courage to send a strong message to Amazon by shelling out a couple hundred dollars more for an iRex.
This is a fight for the freedom of readers, today and tomorrow.
But we cannot wait much more to start and win this fight.
All readers need to become as free and open as the Hanlin and iRex readers.
Reading a paper book was a free experience.
Reading an electronic book must not be a crippled unfree experience. That would be a regression for readers worldwide.
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Old 06-16-2009, 09:32 AM   #25
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You must be really really old I'm not so young myself (not quite old yet though) and I remember buying a Casio calculator for high school for about $20)
To lend a bit of perspective here, in 1972 I bought my first calculator - a Texas Instruments model that did addition, subtraction, multiplication, division, and square roots - that's all - for $99. As you can see, the price tag scarred me for life! You can do the math about the age.
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Old 06-16-2009, 10:26 AM   #26
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To lend a bit of perspective here, in 1972 I bought my first calculator ... You can do the math about the age.
Oh, isn't that cute, doing math in the crib.
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Old 06-16-2009, 10:42 AM   #27
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Oh, isn't that cute, doing math in the crib.
I'll take that as a compliment!
(Maybe I should have said a Fisher Price Big Bird calculator?)
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Old 06-16-2009, 11:11 AM   #28
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About 1973, my high school trig teacher had a huge desktop calculator that did just the basic functions and he told me it cost $300. IIRC, the first scientific calculator I purchased in the early 80's was a Casio and cost around $200.

I'm disappointed in the lack of PDF features on the DX but d*$n I love the screen. It's big and has the best contrast of any Kindle I've owned.
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Old 06-16-2009, 02:54 PM   #29
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So, I kicked the tires on my new Kindle DX a bit, and now I want to kick the person who made the decision to cripple PDF support.

I tried a few PDFs, and about half showed O.K.. The rest were too small, with huge margins, which could be trimmed with a little zooming, if zoom was available.

But, overall, the PDF experience is extremely disappointing. Bordering on useless, frankly.

You really can't do anything, except look at the page. No footnotes, TOC, or other hyperlinks. No dictionary support. As someone mentioned previously, the K DX implementation has almost nothing of what makes PDF such good format - it's basically a picture viewer.

Otherwise, the screen is nice - much more book-like experience than the K2.

The keyboard design is idiotic, since people use numbers often enough to navigate around a book, and number punching on the K DX is a real chore, particularly in bed. There seems to be enough space for another row of buttons, to accommodate the numbers keys.

Right now, I am disappointed enough to return it. And unless someone tells me, that Amazon will implement PDF better soon, I think the K DX might be going back.
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Old 06-16-2009, 07:53 PM   #30
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Perhaps the Kindle IV will be better.....about October or so?
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