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Old 06-08-2009, 12:12 PM   #16
hannah
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Originally Posted by stisev View Post
I also noticed, the absolutely horrid directory structure calibre used. Good lord... Name of book/Author/-file.zip-.
I don't find it a horrid structure at all, I just don't understand why the order is first name - last name. I mean, I hoped first that I could find duplicated authors easily looking at the document structure, but had to find out that it wasn't. I also gave up copying the whole structure on a sdcard (faster than letting calibre doing it), because off the different first names.

For example you have Edgar Allan Poe and E.A. Poe, this two aren't next to each other and are thus difficult to find. I tried correcting this using the author tags, but there you also have first name - last name.

So I really don't mind the document structure, it's very logical in fact, except that I really would prefer to have the last name first (please...). For everything else calibre is very good. I just have to find out how to send a book to a folder in my bebook and not to the root.
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Old 06-08-2009, 12:15 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by pilotbob View Post
Well actually the OP only complained about the folder layout. Pepak later came in and complained about the backup issue.
You missed the point of my posts entirely. Even though I explicitly explained it above. To reiterate, the point is that a file layout that seems optimal to one person could easily be poor to other person.
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Old 06-08-2009, 01:10 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stisev View Post
... and attempted to read some metadata for a bunch of my files. Calibre decided to rearrange ALL of the folders/naming structure of my eBooks, which (dare I say) annoyed me greatly, creating duplicate entries which took a little time to remove. I also noticed, the absolutely horrid directory structure calibre used. Good lord... Name of book/Author/-file.zip-. To make things worse, there is no way to change this behavior. Calibre is configurable in every other fashion I can think of except this:
Calibre does not *force* you to do anything.
You can have your own library in your own set of intricately crafted folder structure.
Just take care when you install Calibre and it asks you where it is supposed to put the library. *Calibre library*. Just set the Calibre Library folder to reside somewhere where it won't mess up with your books. (*) When you import (or drag and drop) a file into Calibre library Calibre does not touch or modify the original file. It makes ITS PRIVATE COPY and stores it into $YOUR_HOME/Calibre_library/Author/Book directory. So what?
If you want to have the file modified by Calibre in your library (your folders), just right click the file and choose "save" from context menu.

If you like the way the Calibre organizes the books, go ahead and use its system. If you do not like it, just edit the metadata, or use it just to tag the books prior to uploading to your device, or just for format shifting, or for whatever you need, like I do.


No. The Calibre program is not perfect for you. It is not perfect for me. It might be absolutely perfect for its creator. I personally wish that Calibre used menus instead of big icons, I find message in the middle of Calibre main screen saying that there is a new version distracting. But this is MY fault.
I constantly grumble about library software from Sony. Because that is what we are stuck with by default and there is NO WAY to change it.

I can not complain about Calibre. If I really, *really* thought it does not do what I want or need, I am supposed to:
1. Try to persuade Kovid to change it
2. Try to motivate Kovid to change it (for example by promising financial donation or whatever)
3. Try to persuade other people to join me in persuading Kovid
4. Try to raise a bounty for programmer that will fork the development tree and implement my ideas (**)
5. Roll up my sleeves and start studying Python to try to change the program myself.
6. Start using Sony Library software so I CAN complain as much as I want ;-)


(*) If you have already installed Calibre and now you need to set the Calibre Library to reside somewhere where it does not mess with YOUR directory structure, just click on the hammer icon, and the very first entry is location of library. You can even have several libraries, just change them as you need.


(**) this has been dome many times. One of the most famous cases was when somebody started to collect money as bounty for hacker that would be able to install and dualboot Windows XP on the then-new Intel based Mac. If my memory serves me right the winner collected bounty of more than $9000. Consequently the Apple released the Boot Camp once the genie was out of the bottle.
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Old 06-08-2009, 01:11 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kovidgoyal View Post
And I defy anyone to give me a single use case where having calibre support their pet folder structure is better.
It'd stop people asking for it! :-)
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Old 06-08-2009, 01:25 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by gwynevans View Post
It'd stop people asking for it! :-)
That *almost* makes it worthwhile
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Old 06-08-2009, 01:46 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stisev View Post
That is why I have decided to "boycott" Calibre until the user the is given the choice.
Don't let the door ...
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Old 06-08-2009, 02:47 PM   #22
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I sympathize with the OP because Calibre is a sacred cow around here.

It's not for everybody; there's no need to get defensive if someone finds it doesn't meet his needs, is there? (rhetorical question, lest there be some doubt).
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Old 06-08-2009, 02:57 PM   #23
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hi stisev, i agree with you that calibre is a brilliant program. in fact i use it exclusively for keeping track of my library.

however, you're also right that it might not be what *everyone* wants. if you want to organise your books without moving them or creating new copies of them, you might want to take a look at the Harvey library management system developped by another member here, NetSlut. i believe it might be a more flexible system for you as it allows you to conserve whatever filing system / structure you prefer.

i don't think you'll get frequent updates like with calibre, since NetSlut has got quite a lot of other projects, and it's not meant to be a conversion tool nor does it have any other ebook utilities built in, however it does allow you to organise your library and it might work for your needs.

i hope that helps you.
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Old 06-08-2009, 02:57 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doreenjoy View Post
I sympathize with the OP because Calibre is a sacred cow around here.

It's not for everybody; there's no need to get defensive if someone finds it doesn't meet his needs, is there? (rhetorical question, lest there be some doubt).
Maybe it would have been better to just stop using Calibre quietly rather than starting a thread on why he/she won't use it (especially a first ever post). There might have been different responses if the OP had posted a question on how to use the software in a way that best suited his/her needs or even made a feature request.
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Old 06-08-2009, 03:07 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doreenjoy View Post
I sympathize with the OP because Calibre is a sacred cow around here.

It's not for everybody; there's no need to get defensive if someone finds it doesn't meet his needs, is there? (rhetorical question, lest there be some doubt).
Personally, I wasn't getting defensive, just trying to correct some inaccuracies. If he doesn't want to use it, that's fine... but the word "boycott" is a bit contencious.

BOb
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Old 06-08-2009, 03:43 PM   #26
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Exclamation Long post warning...

An assortment of thoughts, including my opinion (marked as ) and some taking the other side of the arguement (marked as ) for the sake of discussing things. I have deleted fairly substantial sections of the quoted material to keep the post size down (hah!). Hopefully, in the process, I am not taking the meaning out of context.


Quote:
Originally Posted by stisev View Post
I've been lurking for a long, long time ... I just downloaded the latest [stable 0.5*] release
A "long time" on the Net is subjective. Assuming the OP has read the Calibre section of the Forums for a month, they have some idea how the program works. It doesn't make the OP an advanced user, but it does make them more knowledgeable than John Q. Public who installed the software without reading anything.

Having said that, all users should ask for help when an issue arises that they do not understand. The same is true for a desired feature. It might already be included but implemented in a less obvious manner than expected. Keep in mind that calibre is cross-platform compatible software.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stisev View Post
Calibre decided to rearrange ALL of the folders ... which annoyed me ... creating duplicate entries ... absolutely horrid directory structure ... Name of book/Author/-file.zip-
This is a new user mistake. One that affects almost all new users - including myself. Luckily I only imported a single book. I did not realize calibre was going to copy my ebooks. I thought I needed to point to the location of my existing ebook library.

But this situation happens too often. Implying that this point needs to be addressed more clearly in some manner within the software. Not the documentation. No one reads that until after you've played with things for a bit. (Go on, try and tell me you don't install, play around and then read! ) Perhaps a dialog needs to be added or, during the initial setup, something about this could be more clearly stated.

The horrible directory structure is totally correct. Not in the sense that it doesn't work; nor that some kind of standardized structure has to be used. These points I understand and accept. However, when was the last time that you looked for a book in a (real) Library or Bookstore and found anything listed under the author's first name? Most of us try to remember an author's surname so we can find their work. So calibre's usage is counter-intuitive. However it is exactly the same arrangement used by most media players - despite the music industry grouping by genre and then surname. Ultimately the issue here is one of familiarity vs computer processing limitations.

The title - author naming pattern mentioned is, I believe, a simple error. I think the OP meant author - title. Still, originally I hated the author/title/filename.format arrangement. Then I noticed how often other users had to convert ebook formats. This made me realize the necessity of this type of structure. If a user only has a single ebook format the need for this structure is not obvious and therefore a limitation, not a feature.

Another issue is that for most computer "power users" (used here as: individuals without formal or practical education / experience to make them true programmers / techs) knowing, using and getting around an operating system is standard. You have to learn to surpass the OS' limitations when it doesn't do what you want. Power users new to calibre cannot understand and abide by the file structure required because they've already spent considerable time creating an alternate structure.

While computers can make almost anything possible, it is not always feasible to do something in a specific manner.


Quote:
Originally Posted by gwynevans View Post
... treat Calibre's library as a 'black box' & don't go in there ... you can always import, edit, save to disk then delete calibre's copy.
Agreed. Of course, this aspect is not something that most people consider. Usually you keep a single copy of any file on your computer, not two. So users consider the extra copy a waste of hard drive space. Considering how many people have under-powered systems, this is an understandable conclusion for them to make.

Deleting the books from calibre's library is counter-intuitive. Generally if you delete something from a database, or a hard drive, it ceases to exist or to have existed. At least as far as the database is concerned. So the fact that this works in Calibre is not obvious. Again, this might need to be addressed in the software (although I admit I'm unsure how this one could be done well).


Quote:
Originally Posted by kovidgoyal View Post
And I defy anyone to give me a single use case where having calibre support their pet folder structure is better.
Ok, you're a computer PhD and I'm not. So I probably don't understand exactly what you mean by "use case" per industry standard definition. But...

I cannot attest to "better". However I can and will say that it is "easier for the user" to have calibre support the file structure that the user has already created. No one enjoys doing work twice - particularly tedious work that requires lots of manual effort. Having gone through the hassle of setting up a file structure, naming all the files accordingly, etc it is highly annoying to have a piece of software come along and change it all willy-nilly. Now, I know it's not willy-nilly, but as the user was not expecting this, their perception is less than favorable.

Now, having copied the files willy-nilly to another structure, and totally ignored all of the hard work the user has already put into the project, they have to start all over by re-entering metadata. Some of which was in the filenames. Yes, calibre can import some of this info directly. But most new users find this out after importing their books. This is why I opened a feature request ticket for saving re-usable import regex formulas. While this doesn't address things perfectly, it does ameliorate things a bit. (BTW, new user Atley just created a topic about this very same issue in the forums in the last couple days.)




Alright, I'm going to leave the soapbox now. If your eyes have not glazed over by now, your fingers must be worn down to nubs scrolling down so much!
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Old 06-08-2009, 03:46 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daffy4u View Post
Maybe it would have been better to just stop using Calibre quietly rather than starting a thread on why he/she won't use it (especially a first ever post). There might have been different responses if the OP had posted a question on how to use the software in a way that best suited his/her needs or even made a feature request.
I thought I said that! Oh, I guess I wasn't being tactful again. That happens to me alot!
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Old 06-08-2009, 03:48 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by wodin View Post
I thought I said that! Oh, I guess I wasn't being tactful again. That happens to me alot!
Just consider me the exclamation point to your statement.
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Old 06-08-2009, 10:34 PM   #29
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For example you have Edgar Allan Poe and E.A. Poe, this two aren't next to each other and are thus difficult to find.
It's easier to use calibre itself for such things instead of rummaging around in the directories manually. For instance, click the author field to enable author sorting, and scan down the list looking for inconsistencies. If your books don't sort consistently by the author's last name, you can usually select all books, click the "Edit meta information" button, and use the "Automatically set author sort" checkbox in the dialog (with no other changes) to ensure that all your books sort by last name first (though multi-author books will sort by the last author's last name instead of the first author's last name, as some might expect).
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Old 06-08-2009, 10:48 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daffy4u View Post
Maybe it would have been better to just stop using Calibre quietly rather than starting a thread on why he/she won't use it (especially a first ever post). There might have been different responses if the OP had posted a question on how to use the software in a way that best suited his/her needs or even made a feature request.
Agreed.
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