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Old 06-08-2009, 01:47 AM   #16
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I saw on the video that Mary Lou Jepsen actually reads this thread!

I wondered if ever replacement screens will become available,it would nearly be impossible to keep track of all sizes and differences in screen controllers.

How would they solve the problem of the DIY who takes out his laptop/netbook screen and replaces it with the PixelQI?

Not only does the screen need to have a small change in drivers (to support B&W), but the LCD connector pins need to be the same as the original, meaning,if my LCD screen comes with a connector like a zif connector, it's easy replacable. But I'm sure many models out there will not have the standard connector pinns. (and, of course, the screen need to be the right size and resolution).

If they do plan on making netbook replacement screens, I hope they will send a sample to JKKmobile to do.
He does good reviews, and with a little video from a trusted source, I'm sure a lot of people will feel more secure in doing this themselves (that is,if not too much soldering and fine electronic modifications are necessary).

BTW, did pixel Qi use a technique to improve light reflection on the white background by using a technique similar to the one found in reflectors? (Eg: transparent plastic with triangles on the back)?
I'm sure I saw that the screen focuses the light into the area where the head of the user would be; cause when the camera went lower, the screen turned darker.

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Old 06-08-2009, 02:12 AM   #17
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I am willing to bet that there is not a laptop maker/brand out there which would not like to increase their "potential" run time using existing batteries from 4-6hrs to 10-12hrs with a fully usable outdoor mode simply by using a different display which will cost at worst the same but likely less than the current display panels being used.
I think it's more likely that we see the same netbooks appear (with PQi screen), for the same price, but with a lower capacity battery (basically having the same batterylife too).
Industry is all about money for the big heads, and I doubt if they have found a way to improve, that they won't charge for it...
They will..most likely... It's only competition that gets them to lower price... Or perhaps I've just seen too many companies rip off people and fill their pockets on people's innocence/unawareness/or ignorance (of something they had no clue of)...

sorry about the last sentence, I could not find the right English word for it..

Also, don't expect these kind of numbers from powersaving!
Like they say there's a 2,5 to 3 watts powersaving without backlight; that translates into about 15% powersaving. On a netbook that is rated 3,5 hours you gain about 30 minutes of battery.
On a laptop chances are you save less,partly due to the chipset that consumes considerably more power than a netbook (about 4 times more;while the saving of energy on a laptop screen might be only 2x that of a netbook)

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Old 06-08-2009, 12:22 PM   #18
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Just because I'm sure I'm missing something, a quick general question. When the device is in non-backlight mode it does not have color correct? I'm sort of lost on what their 3 screen options are, is it backlight on (color) backlight off (B&W) and dim backlight (color)?

I'm glad that they are thinking of selling the screens separate for existing laptops, that might be the stronger move for me to just update the netbook I have now (might have to figure out some mod for that backlight off switch), it shows that they are serious about getting this product out to as many people as possible early. I'd like to update my netbook now and wait until next year when the optimized Pixel Qi netbooks come out to get a new one.
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Old 06-08-2009, 12:57 PM   #19
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Initial production run, this fall, will use existing electronics and so won't save much power.
I do not believe that is what she said or will be the case.
This was from the last video in her lab (and was referring to the electronics on the screen itself).

What jkkmoblie says on this is:
Quote:
- When backlight is turned of,Pixel Qi screen uses only 0.8 watts compared to typical 2.5 watts

- Their aim is to bring the drain down to 0.2 watts in next 6 months

- When backlight is on, it is uses same amount of power as a normal screen but is much brighter.

- When backlight is turned of,Pixel Qi screen is black and white.
The "next 6 months" is consistent with the lab video, i.e. not this fall in the initial production runs.
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Old 06-08-2009, 01:49 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by junkyardwillie View Post
Just because I'm sure I'm missing something, a quick general question. When the device is in non-backlight mode it does not have color correct?
I believe that's correct.

Quote:
I'm sort of lost on what their 3 screen options are, is it backlight on (color) backlight off (B&W) and dim backlight (color)?
That's my understanding.

(1) Backlight color (basically regular LCD)
(2) Transflective color (dim backlight LCD)
(3) Backlight off B&W (aka epaper)

Did anyone notice from this video that the Kindle (eInk) has much better contrast than the Pixel Qi's epaper mode, or was it just me?
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Old 06-08-2009, 02:10 PM   #21
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I believe that's correct.



That's my understanding.

(1) Backlight color (basically regular LCD)
(2) Transflective color (dim backlight LCD)
(3) Backlight off B&W (aka epaper)

Did anyone notice from this video that the Kindle (eInk) has much better contrast than the Pixel Qi's epaper mode, or was it just me?
Thanks, yea I think in one of the first videos a couple days ago the guy said that the Kindle has a better white than they do which I assume would be the contrast he's referring to. His Kindle was dead in that video so he didn't show it at the time but that's probably what you're seeing now.
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Old 06-08-2009, 02:19 PM   #22
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Awesome, just awesome!

I was pretty sceptical earlier due to the lack of images/video but now that they're cranking out more and more details and detailed video of the thing I'm totally thrilled! I really want one of these. I'm semi-prepared to instantly donate all of my printed books to some charity/second hand outlet just to show my devotion to this thing I really hope they do early outreach to DIYers as MLJ mentions as a possibility. And I hope that they also do some early outreach to a few, extremely lucky end users. Make it into a competition! Give some respected DIY hack site a few screens, let them mod them into current Netbooks and show it all on the site AND then give away one such DIY netbook to one lucky reader. Buzz-o-rama would follow! Not that they'll have any problem generating buzz anyway but it would still be a cool thing to see.
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Old 06-09-2009, 09:15 AM   #23
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I am still quite skeptical about this display technologies hitting the market at the price they are targeting, because adding a metal layer on the TFT array has never been proven to obtain a high yield rate. Even when Sharp or TMD were making a transflective display, the yield rate is quite low, so that means if the yield rate is low, then the price of the display will be expensive.

I hope I am wrong.
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Old 06-09-2009, 10:40 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by junkyardwillie View Post
Just because I'm sure I'm missing something, a quick general question. When the device is in non-backlight mode it does not have color correct? I'm sort of lost on what their 3 screen options are, is it backlight on (color) backlight off (B&W) and dim backlight (color)?

I'm glad that they are thinking of selling the screens separate for existing laptops, that might be the stronger move for me to just update the netbook I have now (might have to figure out some mod for that backlight off switch), it shows that they are serious about getting this product out to as many people as possible early. I'd like to update my netbook now and wait until next year when the optimized Pixel Qi netbooks come out to get a new one.
I'm not sure if when backlight is off that the device is set to B&W. That would probably require something of LCD screens I don't know of yet; or perhaps require the driver to change the signal.
But what I presumeis,that the LCD is color all the way.
Only, you can not see the colors, if there's no back light.
It hasto do with how the crystals of the LCD interact with the polarization filter. RGB becomes 3x a different type of grey.
The sun needs to travel through the first polarization filter, the LCD, the second polarization filter, bounces on the back, back through the back pol filter, the LCD crystal, the front pol. filter, before it reaches the human eye.
So everytime it goes through a filter, some properties of the light are changed.
And it happens to be that the properties of light passing twice through an LCD screen are different;more changed, than the properties of light that goes straight from the back, and passes only once through the LCD.

It's best comparable to looking to the sun through a red filter.
You will still see yellow and perhaps measuring equipment could measure very faints of green and blue passing through. But most green and blue appear as dark brown or black through the red filter.
In a same manner light that has passed twice through the polarization filters is only able to display light or dark; not really color.
Perhaps this has to do with the crystals in the LCD screen, or perhaps with the properties of the polarization filter, I don't know...

In any case, I'm sure the results are very comparable to seeing webpages and pictures on a laptop with a reflective screen, in bright sunlight.
The screen will look green,but appart from that, you may be able to distinguish colors very faintly.

So I believe just like a laptop, that the screen does not change modes, it stays color, but it is the environment light that quenches the colors, while keeping the contrast.
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Old 06-09-2009, 10:48 PM   #25
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I am still quite skeptical about this display technologies hitting the market at the price they are targeting, because adding a metal layer on the TFT array has never been proven to obtain a high yield rate. Even when Sharp or TMD were making a transflective display, the yield rate is quite low, so that means if the yield rate is low, then the price of the display will be expensive.

I hope I am wrong.
In the video they said that a netbook with this screen would rather cost $200 over this screen costing $200.
My estimation is that a netbook equipped with this screen will not cost more than $50, because the build material is very similar to LCD;in fact is the same but little optimized.
From a marketing perspective they are also not able to ask too much money for the technology, because the little battery life you gain over the many colors you lose will be a 'no' for many...

It will be a technology probably mainly aimed at netbooks,and low price laptops. So the price can't get too high. Also I thought they mentioned trying to get the technology to Africa first. Another clue that it will definitely not cost that much more, compared to a regular screen.
I heard they where trying to fuse the OLPC screen with their current technology or LCD screen (by using diagonal rows of dots instead of horizontal rows of long pixels like used on a TV).
That would yield yet another increase in resolution!
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Old 06-09-2009, 11:02 PM   #26
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Thanks, yea I think in one of the first videos a couple days ago the guy said that the Kindle has a better white than they do which I assume would be the contrast he's referring to. His Kindle was dead in that video so he didn't show it at the time but that's probably what you're seeing now.
Indeed, the kindle basically has a white or black background. PixelQi 's technology actually uses a modified LCD screen with a reflective background.
Meaning, even if the background is as white as white can get, and as reflective as possible (to reflect the sunlight near to 100%),the light still needs to travel through a bunch of layers (glass, polarization filters, and LCD crystals) TWICE (meaning once to the back layer, then through these layers again) before it becomes visible to the user.
The light will lose some of it's intensity,and there's not much that can be done about that; but just for reference:
Pixel Qi's contrast is better than the Sony PRS-700, due to the 700's touchscreen.
So if you're happy with the PRS 700, you certainly will with Pixel Qi's screen.

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Old 06-09-2009, 11:19 PM   #27
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In the video they said that a netbook with this screen would rather cost $200 over this screen costing $200.
My estimation is that a netbook equipped with this screen will not cost more than $50, because the build material is very similar to LCD;in fact is the same but little optimized.
From a marketing perspective they are also not able to ask too much money for the technology, because the little battery life you gain over the many colors you lose will be a 'no' for many...

It will be a technology probably mainly aimed at netbooks,and low price laptops. So the price can't get too high. Also I thought they mentioned trying to get the technology to Africa first. Another clue that it will definitely not cost that much more, compared to a regular screen.
I heard they where trying to fuse the OLPC screen with their current technology or LCD screen (by using diagonal rows of dots instead of horizontal rows of long pixels like used on a TV).
That would yield yet another increase in resolution!
For the Africa comment, they were referring to the One Laptop per child movement that was going on a few years back. They produced a million laptops (I believe that was the figure they quoted) for children in Africa, the XO laptop. They mentioned that in reference to did they believe they would be able to produce enough screens to meet demand, which they believe is a yes.

For the B&W, I noticed in one of the videos that when it was in the B&W mode they mentioned that there is still some color hinting that goes on and you could see some yellows and oranges so you are probably right about your comment on the way the screen works.

We'll have to wait until the screens are out to see it in person but I think that this could be a big move for netbooks, maybe the smartbooks as well, as they are typically made to just quickly surf the net and email. Having something that feels better on your eyes would be a huge plus for a lot of people if the products are marketed correctly. I don't foresee these screens in the latest MacBook or high end computer because as you noted the color quality might not good enough for people doing video editing and photography but for the average user it'll be a plus. Its good that they are getting a bunch of videos out there and trying to spread the word about their product, it gives me hope that this might really take off which I want to see it do because it seems to be taking the tech in the right direction. Your point is warranted that it may be tough for them to get a premium price on their laptops, at least in the first run through, so they will need to take some lumps up front. Next year (if as they quoted in the videos) if they are able to get some netbooks optimized for their screens with much better battery life they should be able to get at least a slight premium on their price which will make their investment worth it.
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Old 06-09-2009, 11:28 PM   #28
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Perhaps even MID's and cellphones could benefit from it as well!
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Old 06-10-2009, 02:02 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by lee1234 View Post
I am still quite skeptical about this display technologies hitting the market at the price they are targeting, because adding a metal layer on the TFT array has never been proven to obtain a high yield rate. Even when Sharp or TMD were making a transflective display, the yield rate is quite low, so that means if the yield rate is low, then the price of the display will be expensive.

I hope I am wrong.
In I think the keynote, or an early video, Mary Lou, herself, mentioned they currently have a 95% yield on their displays which she said more than pleased the panel makers because it was done not in a lab but using real production lines.

Hopefully that is the case and within reasonable limits for other displays.
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Old 06-10-2009, 03:11 AM   #30
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The fact is they did not show the three modes.
At no moment did they tell us clearly: here is mode 1, now is mode 2, now is mode 3.
I think they are either not very good at precisely demonstrating their interesting new screen, or they do not want to show the darkest mode, because their screen may then appear as too dark compared to the Kindle; the risk would be that it could be labeled as the "dark crap".
So when do we get a clear demo of the three modes? Because I may want one in my next laptop, especially if the e-reader mode is clear enough. But even if that mode is too dark, the fact that this screen is very readable under the sun is a great advantage over my current laptop, which is totally unreadable outdoors, and prevents me from watching movies in a garden for example, a thing I found very frustrating the first time, and which led me to use it less.
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