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Old 05-08-2009, 09:45 AM   #106
netseeker
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Originally Posted by All4Fun View Post
Netseeker, it sounds like you are insinuating that my opinion doesn't matter because I haven't *earned* some right to provide it. Way to go. Thanks for the warm welcome. Let's limit the opinion to the regular posters here.

Now that I've been framed as an "outsider", as an outsider looking at this discussion, it seems that folks are going way out of their way to be "polite" about a discussion that is inherently controversial.
I respectfully disagree. You are reading some things into my post, that are just not true. I apologize if my words misleaded you to such a wrong opinion. I just felt that your words were not fair against EA.
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Old 05-08-2009, 09:45 AM   #107
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Originally Posted by All4Fun View Post
Netseeker, it sounds like you are insinuating that my opinion doesn't matter because I haven't *earned* some right to provide it. Way to go. Thanks for the warm welcome. Let's limit the opinions to the regular posters here.

Now that I've been framed as an "outsider", as an outsider looking at this discussion, it seems that folks are going way out of their way to be "polite" about a discussion that is inherently controversial. That to me is being naive.

This is certainly not any attack on "EA" but she has certainly been the most vocal about the decision to close the Conservatory and all I'm saying is if she can't accept the decision, she can either continue to contribute to the forum for the benefit of the other members who have embraced her or she can move on.

If the way that's being conveyed is hard for some to accept, quite honestly (and not to be contentious), I think that's really too bad considering this is a public discussion forum.
All4Fun, you are a valued and respected member of this site just like everyone and we respect your opinion and want you to feel comfortable participating in the discussion. there is no hierarchy here of "veterans vs. new members" and your voice matters just like everyone's. this is a controversial matter, so some tempers are running high and people are feeling a bit sensitive about it. i think you have made some very good points in your posts and i am glad you have contributed to the discussion. i hope you'll continue to participate and not feel unwelcome, or that you have to prove yourself. i don't think netseeker meant to marginalise you, just as i don't think you meant to denigrate Ea ; it's sometimes difficult to convey precisely what you are feeling about such a sensitive topic in writing, but let's all give each other the benefit of the doubt, to keep a constructive discussion. thanks to both of you for participating.
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Old 05-08-2009, 09:53 AM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zelda_pinwheel View Post
i
the conservatory was an experiment which did not give the results we hoped for ; alex made the decision to close it for the good of the community as a whole. we all are very sorry that some members like Ea ar disappointed by this,
It was the way the decision was made that was the problem.

I of course accept the decision but think it was made in a bad way and you I have still not seen any clear reason or the decision other then some people guessed it would be a good idea.

Quote:
but if we are sorry to see how upset she is, imagine how we were feeling to see many many members feeling upset or uncomfortable and even deciding to leave because of the conservatory. overall, the conservatory was having a negative effect on the forum, and that is what we must consider, even though a decision like this will always cause some controversy.
People will be upset by many thing. You have to qualify what types of upset is not accepted. I feel like there are secret rules that are impossible to follow since the are secret.

I have not yet seen any explanation of what the negative effect was and why it was caused by the Conservatory.
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Old 05-08-2009, 09:59 AM   #109
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Heh... this thread is beginning to sound like something that should be in the Conservatory...
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Old 05-08-2009, 10:01 AM   #110
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Originally Posted by zelda_pinwheel View Post
i too hope that Ea will reconsider and continue to participate here because i think many people appreciate her contributions.

but i also really hope that now we can look to the future, rather than dwelling on difficult episodes of the past, and i think that is what All4Fun is suggesting as well.
I'm no fan of "looking into the future and forgetting the past". Looking to the future is ok, but shouldn't we learn from what happened and also should have the freedom to discuss this?
Now i will stop to express my feelings and thoughts about what happened (and still is happening related to the whole topic). I will not leave this forum as EA did (in the end the conservatory was "just" a failed experiment) but i will get less active because too many discussions across the forum are ending with misconceptions and misunderstandings these days.
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Old 05-08-2009, 10:02 AM   #111
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People! People!

Take a break - It's just an internet thread.

It isn't real.

Go find some sunshine and do something different today, and hopefully you will lose the anger and find a reason to smile.

Tomorrow, come back clear-headed and start a new "serious only" thread about something more interesting than this thread. Let's talk about children going to bed hungry in poor countries or something. You decide.

Hugs to All!
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Old 05-08-2009, 10:03 AM   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tompe View Post
I have not yet seen any explanation of what the negative effect was and why it was caused by the Conservatory.
What kind of explanation do you seek?

Quote Alex (admin):

Quote:
Indeed, many of the "serious" discussions started there just seemed to initiate uncomfortable arguments. In effect, even some of our long-standing members began to express their worry about how they should react to the ongoing debates and apparent change in atmosphere.
Quote Alex (with my emphasis):

Quote:
True, but the conservatory was the cause for various misunderstandings and unnecessary arguments between members as well as mods, which then carried over to other places.
Quote Patricia (mod):

Quote:
Alex found it difficult to ignore the large numbers of messages from other members who agreed with you that things "at some points went too far."
Quote Zelda (mod):

Quote:
i also received many messages from people who were uncomfortable with the ambiance in the conservatory, and were worried that it was harming the community. i also had many messages from people who felt so unhappy that they wanted to leave the community altogether. that is a sign we cannot ignore that the conservatory was not the best solution for the forum overall.
Quote Alex:

Quote:
why did I not make this a public decision? Please go through the past four pages of this thread and read the various opposing views about this topic. It's symptomatic for a situation where there is no absolute right answer... this is why I made the unilateral decision! I don't want to spend the next few weeks seeing our members argue about the pros and cons of a second off-topic forum section. Please accept that I made an unilateral decision based on my belief that the Conservatory did nothing to support the MobileRead community as a whole.
Quote Alex:

Quote:
Well, here is a secret... I was one among those who felt increasingly anxious about the content of the Conservatory. Should I have ignored my own feelings as administrator of this community? I think not.

Also, I don't believe the Conservatory ever concerned the majority. The majority of MobileRead cares for e-books and e-book readers, I hope.
Quote Patricia:

Quote:
If you remember, several members were upset at the tone of some of the Conservatory posts and threatened to leave. Then moderators and Alex received many private messages from unhappy members. Under the circumstances Alex, with the support of the moderators, decided that we had to act quickly.
Isn't that enough explanation? I found Alex and the other mods to be extremely open and honest with us.
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Old 05-08-2009, 10:04 AM   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by netseeker View Post
I'm no fan of "looking into the future and forgetting the past". Looking to the future is ok, but shouldn't we learn from what happened and also should have the freedom to discuss this?
Now i will stop to express my feelings and thoughts about what happened (and still is happening related to the whole topic). I will not leave this forum as EA did (in the end the conservatory was "just" a failed experiment) but i will get less active because too many discussions across the forum are ending with misconceptions and misunderstandings these days.
i don't say we should forget the past, netseeker. i agree it's important to remember this and learn from our experience. and i don't suggest we shouldn't be free to discuss it, either.

what i am hoping, is simply that we will be able to learn from this experience and move forward together towards more positive things, rather than letting this experience become "the end" for some of us.
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Old 05-08-2009, 10:10 AM   #114
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Did I miss anything or are we still discussing the Conservatory? Wow. I must be one of the very few who care mostly about e-book readers.
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Old 05-08-2009, 10:27 AM   #115
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Originally Posted by DixieGal View Post
People! People!

Take a break - It's just an internet thread.

It isn't real.

Go find some sunshine and do something different today, and hopefully you will lose the anger and find a reason to smile.
Maybe all people that complains about threads should read this also.
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Old 05-08-2009, 10:30 AM   #116
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I believe it is a poor decision.

Why does it matter where an offensive topic is created? Conservatory or Lounge with serious prefix? The answer is it doesn't matter at all but it helped to some of us to avoid mostly stupid and silly topics that permeated Lounge in the last year.
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Old 05-08-2009, 10:32 AM   #117
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What kind of explanation do you seek?

Isn't that enough explanation? I found Alex and the other mods to be extremely open and honest with us.
I see only that some people complained. People always complains.
That does not mean that there is a reason to complain. I have not seen any example given exactly what threads motivated the decision and how it spread to other parts of the forum.

A lot of people liked the discussions. Why should some people complaining overriding the wishes of the people that liked the discussions but never got a chance saying so?

If the goal is to forbid certain types of discussions please state that certain kind of discussions are not welcome. Now I am totally unsure about what is permitted and not permitted.
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Old 05-08-2009, 10:46 AM   #118
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I believe it is a poor decision.

Why does it matter where an offensive topic is created? Conservatory or Lounge with serious prefix? The answer is it doesn't matter at all but it helped to some of us to avoid mostly stupid and silly topics that permeated Lounge in the last year.

Uh oh! Astra, are you getting emails on all the threads? You can unsubscribe at "edit options" under "user cp" to stop them. Then, if you still want notification of certain threads, you can subscribe to get emails for specific individual threads. Gracious, it would be enough to make anyone mad to be receiving emails on all of the threads!

EDIT: I would join your avatar in banging my head on your piano!
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Old 05-08-2009, 11:06 AM   #119
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I think, on that note, we ought to consider closing the thread ... and move on....
Seconded.
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Old 05-08-2009, 11:18 AM   #120
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If the goal is to forbid certain types of discussions please state that certain kind of discussions are not welcome. Now I am totally unsure about what is permitted and not permitted.
Tom, you have made over 3,300 posts in this community and you have been with us since 2007. I trust you have a pretty good idea what kind of discussions are welcomed at MobileRead.
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