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Old 05-07-2009, 07:26 PM   #91
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First off: If I insulted or annoyed s/o in the conservatory I apologise. It was never my intention. I regret the conservatory leaving - but I can understand the decision and I can life with it.

And I absolutely can understand that there was no public discussion about this (in fact I would have been surprised if there were...) - in the end the moderators and administrators of this board are spending *much* more time and energy on this board then anybody else. In the end its their time, nerve and energy that ensures that threads stay clean, that the board stays open and civil and that everything goes as smoothly as it does now.
I am glad mobileread exists - I am glad for its eBook-related areas, I am glad for the lounge and I am (very) glad for its community - but I am also happy *because* Alex, the other administrators and moderators are doing a fantastic job.
If they decide something is bad for the board - then it is. If they decide they dont want to / cant / mustnt continue the conservatory - it will stop. There is no point in discussing it. (They may start a discussion if they believe that this would help with the decision process - but then it is a gift to the community, not a duty for the admins!)
I am moderating (among others) on a rather large German board - and being a moderator is *not* an easy job. Making decisions about the future of a board or some new rules is *not* easy. And, quite often, one has to take decisions that one believes to be sad - just to ensure the board survives and the community stays healthy.

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Originally Posted by ShortNCuddlyAm View Post
And it's precisely because of the feelings they can engender, and the fights that can arise, that a forum I moderate has them as banned topics and any and all requests to reverse that decision get hit over the head with the hammer-of-multi-purpose.
Yes, the same is true for all the boards I moderate on ..


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Anyway, this is Alex's forum, so he has the ultimate word. We are just guests, it would be rude to keep complaining to the host, right?
I honestly agree to this one - whatever follows.

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Originally Posted by Over View Post
I think maybe no off-topic boards would be the best solution then.
Please dont remove the Lounge!

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Originally Posted by daffy4u View Post
If you want to see a many threads get way off topic, take away the "off topic" area. It won't be pretty.
This is one argument in favor of an off topic area - but its only valid with "nice visitors". Opening an off topic area *is* dangerous (closing it even more so) - but I believe that the Lounge is really a good thing. Its funny, refreshing, entertaining, etc
But there are other ways to keep threads on topic.

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Originally Posted by mjh215 View Post
When the bill comes for hosting the forum, they go to Alex (unless I am at all mistaken as to the hierarchy on the system ). If the forum receives a DMCA it is aimed at Alex, not me or you. If a lawsuit was brought against the forum, it is brought against Alex, not "MobileRead", not HarryT, Zelda, or MtravellerH. As much as my posts, Ea's, Patricia's, et al.'s make up MobileRead in the end the final definition of MobileRead in the great encyclopedia of Life, the Universe and Everything is, "A forum owned and administrated by Alexander Turcic".
Amen.
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Old 05-07-2009, 07:43 PM   #92
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some earlier poster suggested that it was the new bunch of euro posters with their anti-us views that were the cause, they might just as well have named peru, canada or california
I guess you are referring to my post to Alex. I just wrote about the possibly happened clashing of "very different world views". I never mentioned "anti-us views" neither did any other poster here. Isn't the rhetoric of your post (eg. "brain dead nit-wits") the same thing as what conservatory's opponents are complaining about?

I'm really sad when i have to read such bitter comments as yours. Maybe it's really the better choice to have the conservatory closed if people like you felt so offended.

just for clarification:
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We got a lot of new members here during the last weeks - including many new users from france, germany, switzerland and austria. Could it just be that very diffferent world views clashed in some disucssions more often than in the past? If my guess is true (at least partially) then closing the conservatory will not help - but the clashs will now really carry over to other sections.
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Old 05-07-2009, 08:10 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by netseeker View Post
I guess you are referring to my post to Alex. I just wrote about the possibly happened clashing of "very different world views". I never mentioned "anti-us views" neither did any other poster here. Isn't the rhetoric of your post (eg. "brain dead nit-wits") the same thing as what conservatory's opponents are complaining about?

I'm really sad when i have to read such bitter comments as yours. Maybe it's really the better choice to have the conservatory closed if people like you felt so offended.

just for clarification:
Myes, I'm also not very impressed with the apparent implicit equation of "euro posters with anti-us views" to "pit-vipers" and "nitwits who ignore good arguments in favor of statements that fit their narrow views."
Even though it isn't there explicitly, the jist of the post does seem to be that a select few deserve the Alleinschuld while the rest just got caught up in the mix.

That said, the fact remains that people mostly were talking past eachother anyway, so that there was little point to most of the discussions even as they were being held. As such, I doubt I will miss the forum very much, even though writing there did help me to develop a few arguments in another essay that I was writing for a course, so it wasn't a total loss

But in all I would also conclude that this experiment was a failure, as it didn't add much to an ebook forum other than to show that people who read books come from all kinds of different backgrounds

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Old 05-07-2009, 08:46 PM   #94
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Really sad to see it go. Filtering tags is just not the same and doesn't work with "new posts" link.
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Old 05-08-2009, 04:49 AM   #95
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bye

I have read some other posters' explanation why they didn't like the Conservatory, and I can understand it. I cannot understand why the decision was done in this sneaky manner.

I am still feeling deeply confused and hurt that the decision to close the Conservatory forum was made behind closed doors like this. Alex' original post did not do well to explain why either. It felt like having a carpet pulled away under me and it hurt considerable, falling down.

I don't want to hang around here for a very long time, when things can happen like this. I feel sorry about it, as I like reading and e-readers - it was nice sharing that with you.

I hope you all have a nice summer.

Ea


PS @ Daithi: Ea is a girl's name
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Old 05-08-2009, 05:52 AM   #96
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Ea: we are deeply sorry to have upset you. Believe me, this was not a decision that Alex took lightly. It is not easy to run a forum, and sometimes one has to make very hard choices.

If you remember, several members were upset at the tone of some of the Conservatory posts and threatened to leave. Then moderators and Alex received many private messages from unhappy members. Under the circumstances Alex, with the support of the moderators, decided that we had to act quickly. The result is the decision that has caused you so much disquiet.
We are extremely sorry about this and appeal to you to reconsider your decision.
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Old 05-08-2009, 09:19 AM   #97
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I'm a relatively new member at MR but have frequented many many forums. I never understood the need for a "Conservatory" and a "Lounge". Why not a simple "Off-Topic" forum as most forums have and where the community members and moderators help to police it when things get out of control? The moment a topic get out of hand, the mods should just lock the thread with an explanation and move on.

I consider myself a guest of the forum. If it doesn't satisfy my needs, I can move on to another forum that fits my needs. I come to MR to get information about ebooks and ebook devices which I believe is the primary focus of this forum. As I become more comfortable, I may engage in Off-Topic discussions with the community but that's not why I'm here to begin with.

No decision will satisfy everyone and Alex has demonstrated leadership by making a decision that he believes is in the best interest of the community and benefit the majority. For those not satisfied with the decision (i.e. EA), you continue to have the choice to move on to another forum.

I just don't get the time being spent on trying to convince EA. He/She is clearly upset and is still not supportive of the decision to close the Conservatory even though alternatives were presented. I think it's naive to continue to believe that we can satisfy everyone with Alex's decision. Time to move on as far as I'm concerned.

This is not a paid subscription site after all.
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Old 05-08-2009, 09:29 AM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by All4Fun View Post
I just don't get the time being spent on trying to convince EA. He/She is clearly upset and is still not supportive of the decision to close the Conservatory even though alternatives were presented. I think it's naive to continue to believe that we can satisfy everyone with Alex's decision. Time to move on as far as I'm concerned.
I hope Ea reconsiders; for the purely selfish reason that I've enjoyed reading her contributions to various discussions.
It's always sad when someone leaves that you hoped would stay.
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Old 05-08-2009, 09:46 AM   #99
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This thread has certainly mushroomed in a short space of time, and become often heated - and its location is in Announcements not Conservatory! There remain pros & cons as to why the Conservatory came into being and was then closed. At least a couple of good informative discussions developed, the choice of windows/ubuntu being one I can recall (though some have suggested that became acrimonious - but is that because of, or in spite of, the Conservatory?).

However I do not, really, appreciate what difference it will now make to move the Conservatory discussions into the Lounge, albeit with a 'new' tag (much as was proposed b.c.). Perhaps the discussions in the Conservatory area were just an example of how MobileRead membership is increasing, with a greater cross-section of humanity in a small area.....

The dark, and occasionally uncomfortable, subjects that were appearing in the Conservatory, will now appear into the Lounge....?
A Lounge where the number of threads, on a screen-full, may become more difficult to wade through. At least with the two separate areas one could manage ones' time.

I do appreciate Ea's concerns that a discussion took place to introduce the Conservatory, but a similar opportunity was not offered before its demise. I sincerely hope that she does not depart .....

However, Moderators and especially Alex, have a difficult enough task managing the site as a whole and one must bow to the decisions made on behalf of MobileRead and it's members - no matter how unpalatable they may taste.

We should really all accept and support this decision and move onto what we all dearly love .... books and their readers
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Old 05-08-2009, 10:16 AM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by All4Fun View Post
I just don't get the time being spent on trying to convince EA. He/She is clearly upset and is still not supportive of the decision to close the Conservatory even though alternatives were presented. I think it's naive to continue to believe that we can satisfy everyone with Alex's decision. Time to move on as far as I'm concerned.
Losing such great, polite and helpful members like EA hurts. Some of us (including me) can't move on so easy and feel that they have to express their worries about the decision. Please be so polite and accept that members like EA have *earned* the right to express their opinions and feelings.
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Old 05-08-2009, 10:20 AM   #101
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Originally Posted by netseeker View Post
Losing such great, polite and helpful members like EA hurts. Some of us (including me) can't move on so easy and feel that they have to express their worries about the decision. Please be so polite and accept that members like EA have *earned* the right to express their opinions and feelings.

i'm not actually sure that anyone has really disagreed with Ea's extremely valid point of view. all of the posts i've seen relating to her have made the hope that she remains an active member....
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Old 05-08-2009, 10:27 AM   #102
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i'm not actually sure that anyone has really disagreed with Ea's extremely valid point of view. all of the posts i've seen relating to her have made the hope that she remains an active member....
Maybe it's just because i'm not a native speaker but All4Funs post doesn't "sound" fair against EA. Maybe i got it wrong - but i don't think so.
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Old 05-08-2009, 10:36 AM   #103
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Originally Posted by netseeker View Post
Losing such great, polite and helpful members like EA hurts. Some of us (including me) can't move on so easy and feel that they have to express their worries about the decision. Please be so polite and accept that members like EA have *earned* the right to express their opinions and feelings.
Netseeker, it sounds like you are insinuating that my opinion doesn't matter because I haven't *earned* some right to provide it. Way to go. Thanks for the warm welcome. Let's limit the opinions to the regular posters here.

Now that I've been framed as an "outsider", as an outsider looking at this discussion, it seems that folks are going way out of their way to be "polite" about a discussion that is inherently controversial. That to me is being naive.

This is certainly not any attack on "EA" but she has certainly been the most vocal about the decision to close the Conservatory and all I'm saying is if she can't accept the decision, she can either continue to contribute to the forum for the benefit of the other members who have embraced her or she can move on.

If the way that's being conveyed is hard for some to accept, quite honestly (and not to be contentious), I think that's really too bad considering this is a public discussion forum.
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Old 05-08-2009, 10:39 AM   #104
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Maybe it's just because i'm not a native speaker but All4Funs post doesn't "sound" fair against EA. Maybe i got it wrong - but i don't think so.
i don't think All4Fun is trying to denigrate Ea. and i agree that it's important for members to feel they can express their feelings about the situation. but i think he makes a good point that today, the best thing to do for all of us is to move forward and think of news ways to improve the mobileread community and experience.

the conservatory was an experiment which did not give the results we hoped for ; alex made the decision to close it for the good of the community as a whole. we all are very sorry that some members like Ea ar disappointed by this, but if we are sorry to see how upset she is, imagine how we were feeling to see many many members feeling upset or uncomfortable and even deciding to leave because of the conservatory. overall, the conservatory was having a negative effect on the forum, and that is what we must consider, even though a decision like this will always cause some controversy.

as many people have pointed out, sometimes Alex and the mod team have to make very difficult decisions, and sometimes these decisions must be made without consulting the whole membership for a vote. this is part of what it means to be an administrator of a site.

i too hope that Ea will reconsider and continue to participate here because i think many people appreciate her contributions.

but i also really hope that now we can look to the future, rather than dwelling on difficult episodes of the past, and i think that is what All4Fun is suggesting as well.
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Old 05-08-2009, 10:42 AM   #105
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I think, on that note, we ought to consider closing the thread ... and move on....
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