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Old 05-07-2009, 05:31 PM   #76
ShortNCuddlyAm
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Oops! Sorry! It's a southern thing. They say our politicians are from the "old boys' club" style of governing. A few career politicians who have been re-elected for 50 years and refuse to change with the times. The phrase is negative and refers to excluding anyone whose opinions differ. I'll change the comment.
We have a similar phrase in the UK - the old boys network - usually applied to people who have achieved a relatively high position without appearing to have the skills to get there.

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As one of the vociferous vipers in the Conservatory, I found that even I didn't like the tone and bailed out. I'm currently doing penance by writing a new Red....
Looking forward to it!

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They say you should never discuss Politics and Religion, unfortunately the Conservatory became heavily intertwined with opinions on both. These are hot-topic issues and have caused more ill-will between people since the Conservatory began than any other 'copyright/fight' post that came before.
And it's precisely because of the feelings they can engender, and the fights that can arise, that a forum I moderate has them as banned topics and any and all requests to reverse that decision get hit over the head with the hammer-of-multi-purpose.
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Old 05-07-2009, 05:31 PM   #77
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Nah, we'd have just stuck a pink bow on your avatar and let you join in the fun.

On Topic:

I voted for the new forum but didn't use it (well I posted once accidentally). Some of the thread titles were so dark that I opted not to read any of the threads in the Conservatory. It didn't seem to be developing into the type of forum I envisioned when I voted for its creation . I've recently peeked at a few posts there because of references to people having problems related to arguments in that particular forum.

I have no problem with its demise. I appreciate that Alex listened to us and gave it a try.
That's exactly it!! I was hoping it would be a place for friendly discussion without being too silly, but some of the threads were decidedly depressing!

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Old 05-07-2009, 05:32 PM   #78
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Now it's time to heal some of those rifts that were caused due to the nature of the Conservatory and get on with what we all love, reading and sharing that passion with each other.
Very well said.
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Old 05-07-2009, 05:38 PM   #79
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On the subject of topics 'not for discussion'. It's generally accepted as the rule in a military mess that Religion, Ladies and Politics are not matters for discussion.

To which my response has always been, "Amen, Madam President."
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Old 05-07-2009, 05:38 PM   #80
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Although it would probably take a great deal of time, I would imagine if you went back through the threads of the former Conservatory, you would see that most of the posts were from the same subset of posters to MR. Whenever I looked through the topics to see if I had something to contribute, it seemed like I saw the same names over and over again. That was the minority to which I was refering.
You are right, only a minjority used the conservatory but that doesn't mean automatically that a majority didn't want the conservatory to exist.

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Forgive me if I am making a bit of an assumption based on my perceptions. I was trying to help clarify Alex's decision making process.
There is nothing to forgive. Don't take my comments to serious, my "denglisch" (as we call the mix of german and english here in germany) sounds more "rough" than intended sometimes.

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I look at is as I stated before Alex is the owner and it should be "his way or the highway." Simply put, but true.
Kaz
I respectfully disagree: Great communities don't work this way. In great communities there is just no necessity for "you are either with me, or against me".
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Old 05-07-2009, 05:40 PM   #81
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I didn't wander too much in the conservatory, yet I can't stop feeling a little bit of unfairness in this situation. I think maybe no off-topic boards would be the best solution then. No one would feel excluded or vilified, therefore there would be no complaints. No "sides". This is all about eBooks, eReaders and reading in general, right?

Anyway, this is Alex's forum, so he has the ultimate word. We are just guests, it would be rude to keep complaining to the host, right?

Last edited by Over; 05-07-2009 at 05:42 PM.
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Old 05-07-2009, 05:45 PM   #82
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You are right, only a minjority used the conservatory but that doesn't mean automatically that a majority didn't want the conservatory to exist.


There is nothing to forgive. Don't take my comments to serious, my "denglisch" (as we call the mix of german and english here in germany) sounds more "rough" than intended sometimes.


I respectfully disagree: Great communities don't work this way. In great communities there is just no necessity for "you are either with me, or against me".
In the purest form of a community, where people live and work together, I agree. However, there are all kinds of communities where it is best to have one driving force to keep everything on track, ie., schools, jobs, etc. They are communities where my phrase often applies. My children will also tell you that I apply it with great frequency at home!

Kaz
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Old 05-07-2009, 05:45 PM   #83
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Hey, I cannot believe we are still arguing about this. It's not like all hell broke loose or Alex tried to fundamentally change the direction of this community. He only judged that MobileRead doesn't need two off-topic sections. That's all. Seriously, think about it!

Let's sit back and give it a quiet moment of *ooooooooooooooooooohm*.
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Old 05-07-2009, 05:47 PM   #84
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Hey, I cannot believe we are still arguing about this. It's not like all hell broke loose or Alex tried to fundamentally change the direction of this community. He only judged that MobileRead doesn't need two off-topic sections. That's all. Seriously, think about it!

Let's sit back and give it a quiet moment of *ooooooooooooooooooohm*.
Are we arguing?

Kaz
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Old 05-07-2009, 05:47 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by TadW View Post
Hey, I cannot believe we are still arguing about this. It's not like all hell broke loose or Alex tried to fundamentally change the direction of this community. He only judged that MobileRead doesn't need two off-topic sections. That's all. Seriously, think about it!

Let's sit back and give it a quiet moment of *ooooooooooooooooooohm*.
Agreed, and you said it much better than I
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Old 05-07-2009, 05:49 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by Over View Post
I think maybe no off-topic boards would be the best solution then. No one would feel excluded or vilified, therefore there would be no complaints. No "sides". This is all about eBooks, eReaders and reading in general, right?
Every message board I belong to has some sort of "off topic" area (some have multiple). People are social and sometimes just want to chat about things other than the thing that brought them together. If you want to see a many threads get way off topic, take away the "off topic" area. It won't be pretty.
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Old 05-07-2009, 05:51 PM   #87
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My children will also tell you that I apply it with great frequency at home!
Uhm, there you have me! I'm telling my children the same.
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Old 05-07-2009, 05:55 PM   #88
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Hey, I cannot believe we are still arguing about this. It's not like all hell broke loose or Alex tried to fundamentally change the direction of this community. He only judged that MobileRead doesn't need two off-topic sections. That's all. Seriously, think about it!

Let's sit back and give it a quiet moment of *ooooooooooooooooooohm*.
i agree ! very well said, tad. thank you.
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Old 05-07-2009, 05:56 PM   #89
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Ea: You are an intelligent user and I've appreciated many of your posts but I strongly disagree with what you are saying in this thread. I can appreciate your feeling hurt but I think it comes down to some misinterpretations.

First, this forum is not -public- in the sense that it is an open democracy. It can certainly feel that way given the degree that Alex (and mods) acts on concerns by the users. But in the end it is still a privately owned forum, and privately run.

I have only been a member for little over a year. I believe the forum was, in a much less developed form, created over 7 years ago. Every time I look at the forum I see Alex working to advance it with concerns of the user base, by way of their suggestions and comments. When possible he'll leave decisions to an open discussion. I have never seen a forum with more user input into its development then MobileRead. Recall that Alex was against the creation of the Conservatory or separation of threads from the Lounge. It was only because of the concerns of the users that he decided to create it in the first place.

As to why no open discussion was formed prior to the discussion, I think that he was placed into a situation where the benefits did not outweigh the stress he was under from users and moderators. If, as the administrator and owner, Alex was presented with a situation such as the CHAT box was eating up 90% of the server's processor time we wouldn't question him for doing away with it. Instead of the server, I think what is being said here is that Alex's time was being eaten up over issues caused in the Conservatory.

I have been on BBS's and some form of 'forum' for over 20 years now. Each of these communities certainly exists because of the exchange of information by its users. However there is always a line, always, where it is no longer the community's decision and it becomes that of the owner/administrator/sysop. I think the problem here is that Alex gives users unprecedented levels of freedom and control over the forum and when he does have to make an executive decision it feels completely out of place. Looking at this from what I perceive as his angle, there was no discussion to be made. It was more trouble than it was worth to him, more people would be upset by its staying then by its leaving.

I'm not posting this because of my opposition to the Conservatory, I made my concerns known from day one. But I don't run things and said it didn't make any difference to me, and if you think I'm just saying that for purposes of this discussion this is a quote from the fourth day I was a member here, "Then by all means delete/lock the thread. It's not my forum. I say this with no malice, just statement of fact." It is a concept people need to grasp about forums and websites they access, no matter how emotionally attached they are to them.

When the bill comes for hosting the forum, they go to Alex (unless I am at all mistaken as to the hierarchy on the system ). If the forum receives a DMCA it is aimed at Alex, not me or you. If a lawsuit was brought against the forum, it is brought against Alex, not "MobileRead", not HarryT, Zelda, or MtravellerH. As much as my posts, Ea's, Patricia's, et al.'s make up MobileRead in the end the final definition of MobileRead in the great encyclopedia of Life, the Universe and Everything is, "A forum owned and administrated by Alexander Turcic".

I have privately stated and will now make it public that I think Alex, in trying to be diplomatic and create a great community, is -too- mute an administrator and sometimes needs to take a more active and authoritative role. If you want a free-for-all community on the web, go to 4chan. I think we have a great forum but people need to accept that in the end it is his forum to run how he sees fit, even though he pulls up the bootstraps on VERY rare occasion.

I'd like to point out that even I know how much this sounds like brown-nosing, and in fact most things I say in regards to Alex sound that way. I like the guy, I think he does a great job running things and having my own experiences in these arenas I feel akin to him when situations such as these come up so if people cannot understand my motivation in defending him I REALLY could not care less. I also did not mean for the above to belittle the actions and importance of all the wonderful (and not-so-wonderful ) moderators we have on the forum, but like I said in the end if MobileRead was guilty of some crime, Alex is he who would be arrested.

-MJ
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Old 05-07-2009, 06:56 PM   #90
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i am far from a prude as several ex-wives will tell you and i had issues with the conservatory, the general topics were the normal cannon fodder of many sites on the net, far removed from e-books and that is fine, the discussions were not mobileread like discussions, they were, at times, nasty and polarizing, as a debating society it had a lot to learn, if it had been my first look at mobileread i never would have joined

people were ignored, insulted, their motives questioned, their morals atacked, and all this in the name of open honest discussion, some of the jokes, when allowed, were tasteless and those that did not like them were hounded, good arguments were ignored in favor of louder screams by brain dead nit-wits that thought their recent post would change the world to their own narrow view of it

i voiced my upset through a public post in the conservatory that did not make the transisition to the lounge as it is no longer viable, Alex and Zelda both sent me letters about it, each of us votes every day where to spend our on-line time, the conservatory made it harder and harder to vote for mobileread, the pit viper mentality of the place was spilling over into other sections of the site, some earlier poster suggested that it was the new bunch of euro posters with their anti-us views that were the cause, they might just as well have named peru, canada or california

i applaud Alex for his stance, the marketing people would say it didn't fit into the mobileread marketing mix, it should be cast off, i am glad to see it go
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