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Old 08-21-2009, 01:17 AM   #16
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How does Jetbook's screen compare to monochrome Palm PDA's, say Handspring Visor?
You can see how it looks in the posted photo. It has been a few years since I've seen a Handspring Visor, or similar Palm device, but IMO, those screen are much harder to read than the jetBook screen.
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Old 08-21-2009, 03:34 AM   #17
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The problem with the jetBook display, IMO, is that the brightness varies greatly based on the angle of incidence of the light source. If the light source is off axis, the brightness of the screen drops disproportionately fast. Viewing angle is fine if the light source remains on axis. E-ink does not have this issue.

The issue is this: I rarely read off axis. After all, I'm holding the device in my hand, why would I hold it significantly off axis? I can angle it directly towards my eyes with a slight twist of the wrist. The problem is if you're reading from a relatively point source of light like a small lamp. The brightness of the screen then varies greatly based on the angle that the device is from the light source. This has nothing to do with viewing the device off axis. For example, if you sit in a room with omnidirectional lighting (say a room with a glass wall in the shade during the day) and then view the device from all manner of angles, you will find that the screen stays well lit from any off axis angle you choose. However, if you are reading by the light of a lamp, you will find that the brightness of the screen will grow bright and grow dim based on the angle of the light from the lamp, not on the angle of your eyes on the screen. This means that for best visibility from a lamp, the lamp must be shining over your shoulder.

I will try to post pictures that illustrate this if I get a chance.

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Old 08-21-2009, 04:58 AM   #18
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Welcome to MobileRead, abrahaml.

I, too, have noticed this issue of lighting and I understand your thoughtful posting on this issue relating to TFT screens.

While I do agree with you on your observations - and they are quite valid, I feel - I personally don't find the situation to be of a negative nature.

But, again, I do understand what you're saying and I do agree with you.


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Old 08-21-2009, 12:07 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by abrahaml View Post
The problem with the jetBook display, IMO, is that the brightness varies greatly based on the angle of incidence of the light source. If the light source is off axis, the brightness of the screen drops disproportionately fast. Viewing angle is fine if the light source remains on axis. E-ink does not have this issue.

The issue is this: I rarely read off axis. After all, I'm holding the device in my hand, why would I hold it significantly off axis? I can angle it directly towards my eyes with a slight twist of the wrist. The problem is if you're reading from a relatively point source of light like a small lamp. The brightness of the screen then varies greatly based on the angle that the device is from the light source. This has nothing to do with viewing the device off axis. For example, if you sit in a room with omnidirectional lighting (say a room with a glass wall in the shade during the day) and then view the device from all manner of angles, you will find that the screen stays well lit from any off axis angle you choose. However, if you are reading by the light of a lamp, you will find that the brightness of the screen will grow bright and grow dim based on the angle of the light from the lamp, not on the angle of your eyes on the screen. This means that for best visibility from a lamp, the lamp must be shining over your shoulder.

I will try to post pictures that illustrate this if I get a chance.
Yes, that makes sense. I've had the same experience with having to vary the screen angle for best lighting, and sometimes I even turn the screen at a funny angle (compared to my eyes) so that it is lit well. This mostly in low-light ("lamp") situations. Makes sense that Ectaco sells an earlight accessory... maybe I'll get one of those.
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Old 08-21-2009, 12:55 PM   #20
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Yes, that makes sense. I've had the same experience with having to vary the screen angle for best lighting, and sometimes I even turn the screen at a funny angle (compared to my eyes) so that it is lit well. This mostly in low-light ("lamp") situations. Makes sense that Ectaco sells an earlight accessory... maybe I'll get one of those.
I do that with pBooks, what's the point?
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Old 08-21-2009, 09:46 PM   #21
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The point is that light can fall on a pBook (or e-ink, I presume) at just about any angle and the page will still be reasonably lit. However, with the jetBook, the brightness of the screen falls disproportionately as the angle of the source of light falls to the sides of the reader. In other words the brightness of the screen is determined by the angle the light is coming from, not the angle your eyes are to the screen. This is not what we typically expect or experience when considering "viewing angles" in a conventional backlit device.

The screen is still more than functional but it doesn't exude the same paper-like quality of an e-ink screen. Given the price discrepancy, I don't regret the choice. Competition is good, and one of these days, someone will make a reader that is truly superior to the real deal.
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Old 08-21-2009, 10:24 PM   #22
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The point is that light can fall on a pBook (or e-ink, I presume) at just about any angle and the page will still be reasonably lit. However, with the jetBook, the brightness of the screen falls disproportionately as the angle of the source of light falls to the sides of the reader. In other words the brightness of the screen is determined by the angle the light is coming from, not the angle your eyes are to the screen. This is not what we typically expect or experience when considering "viewing angles" in a conventional backlit device.

The screen is still more than functional but it doesn't exude the same paper-like quality of an e-ink screen. Given the price discrepancy, I don't regret the choice. Competition is good, and one of these days, someone will make a reader that is truly superior to the real deal.
I myself have remarked on way light can affect the screen. However, I have read from others who have stated the Jetbook is much easier to read than an e-ink device in low light because of its reflective properties. Neither the Jetbook or e-Ink do as well as paper because the background is not white to begin with. Remember a book's white page appears white because of it's reflective properties. But with anything you read from you will want to hold it towards the light anyway.

From my experience with an e-ink device, what makes the Jetbook better to read with in low light (or any light) is the contrast between text, which is much blacker, and the lighter background (assuming you hold it towards the light). The older your eyes get the more you will appreciate this higher contrast.
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Old 08-21-2009, 10:47 PM   #23
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Ectaco sells an earlight accessory... maybe I'll get one of those.
I have been looking at that too. But I am afraid that it might have that awful, blue LED light quality. If you do please be sure to comment on it here. Thanks.
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Old 08-22-2009, 12:57 AM   #24
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I have been looking at that too. But I am afraid that it might have that awful, blue LED light quality. If you do please be sure to comment on it here. Thanks.
I'm not sure I do enough low-light reading to justify the purchase... yet. I'd probably go with one from Amazon where I can read reviews... NOT from Ectaco. That or a head lamp.
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Old 08-22-2009, 02:58 AM   #25
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On the flip side, the advantage to a darker color background is the ability to read in direct sunlight. Not that I would want to, but I find white paper is much too bright under direct sunlight.

The problem with holding the jetBook towards a lamp is the glare. As the source of light falls off axis, I also find that the screen is noticeably unevenly lit, which is annoying and distracting to me. E-ink screens do not need to be held in such a position that the light is close to perpendicular to the screen and thus provides more flexibility in screen/hand positioning. AFAIK, they also don't suffer from off axis uneven lighting issues.

I would contend that this situation arises more often than we may think. For example, right now, I am sitting at my desk. My lamp is roughly 3 feet away, and this particular lamp's bulb is about 1 foot off the surface of the desk. Those of you fresher at trigonometry can calculate for me what the angle of incidence is. Suffice to say, you may be placed into compromising situations where the angle of incidence is much greater than you realize more often than you think. At this angle, the brightness of the jetBook screen is subtly compromised. A light blue sheet of paper with black text I have on my desk is much easier on the eyes. Black text on white paper - goes without saying.
Is it legible? Absolutely. However, it leaves me wanting. I would much rather read off of my monitor.

Of course, the benefits of the LCD screen have been adequately described in this thread, as well as others, so I won't get into them here. Please don't take my replies as unqualified criticism. My replies only reflect my disappointment in the screen in relation to my limited e-ink experience. I am otherwise satisfied with the functionality of the reader.

If I get a chance to borrow a Kindle, I will do my best to take pictures that illustrate the matter.

As far as the blue light spectrum of the LED light, one might keep in mind that color balance changes all the time and we don't always realize it. Light is very blue in the shade. Most of us have tungsten lightbulbs at home, which are definitely orange. We often have flourescent lights at work, which are green tinged. I suspect your eyes could quickly adapt to the blue LED light if you use it well away from tungsten light sources, which exacerbate the contrast in color temperature. I suppose we do tend to be more attracted to warmth.

Last edited by abrahaml; 08-22-2009 at 03:11 AM.
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Old 08-22-2009, 08:04 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abrahaml View Post
On the flip side, the advantage to a darker color background is the ability to read in direct sunlight. Not that I would want to, but I find white paper is much too bright under direct sunlight.

The problem with holding the jetBook towards a lamp is the glare. As the source of light falls off axis, I also find that the screen is noticeably unevenly lit, which is annoying and distracting to me. E-ink screens do not need to be held in such a position that the light is close to perpendicular to the screen and thus provides more flexibility in screen/hand positioning. AFAIK, they also don't suffer from off axis uneven lighting issues.

I would contend that this situation arises more often than we may think. For example, right now, I am sitting at my desk. My lamp is roughly 3 feet away, and this particular lamp's bulb is about 1 foot off the surface of the desk. Those of you fresher at trigonometry can calculate for me what the angle of incidence is. Suffice to say, you may be placed into compromising situations where the angle of incidence is much greater than you realize more often than you think. At this angle, the brightness of the jetBook screen is subtly compromised. A light blue sheet of paper with black text I have on my desk is much easier on the eyes. Black text on white paper - goes without saying.
Is it legible? Absolutely. However, it leaves me wanting. I would much rather read off of my monitor.

Of course, the benefits of the LCD screen have been adequately described in this thread, as well as others, so I won't get into them here. Please don't take my replies as unqualified criticism. My replies only reflect my disappointment in the screen in relation to my limited e-ink experience. I am otherwise satisfied with the functionality of the reader.

If I get a chance to borrow a Kindle, I will do my best to take pictures that illustrate the matter.

As far as the blue light spectrum of the LED light, one might keep in mind that color balance changes all the time and we don't always realize it. Light is very blue in the shade. Most of us have tungsten lightbulbs at home, which are definitely orange. We often have flourescent lights at work, which are green tinged. I suspect your eyes could quickly adapt to the blue LED light if you use it well away from tungsten light sources, which exacerbate the contrast in color temperature. I suppose we do tend to be more attracted to warmth.
I have a Kindle2, so I can take some photos. I'll try to do that later today, since I've already finished my Term Marks (I'm a teacher), and the little MONSTERS aren't around.

In fact, I'll take some side-by-side photos of all 4 of my devices: Kindle2, Sony PRS-505, jebBook, and REB-1100 -- three different types of screens.


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Old 08-22-2009, 09:43 AM   #27
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The problem with holding the jetBook towards a lamp is the glare. As the source of light falls off axis, I also find that the screen is noticeably unevenly lit, which is annoying and distracting to me.
I have not yet experienced an uneven lighting presence on the Jetbook screen in any lighting condition. To my eyes the surface is completely uniform. Glare is a problem with every device, but one that can be dealt with.

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I would contend that this situation arises more often than we may think. For example, right now, I am sitting at my desk. My lamp is roughly 3 feet away, and this particular lamp's bulb is about 1 foot off the surface of the desk. Those of you fresher at trigonometry can calculate for me what the angle of incidence is. Suffice to say, you may be placed into compromising situations where the angle of incidence is much greater than you realize more often than you think. At this angle, the brightness of the jetBook screen is subtly compromised. A light blue sheet of paper with black text I have on my desk is much easier on the eyes. Black text on white paper - goes without saying.
Is it legible? Absolutely. However, it leaves me wanting. I would much rather read off of my monitor.
Using any device with current technology is a compromise. Why do you think many contributors at MR have more than one? One should always use the tool that best fits the situation. For extreme low light you want a backlight screen, period. Of course you could employ a book light but that would also be a compromise (see below). For low light you probably want to stick with a paper book. In general and on their own one of the current reading devices can do well in medium and bright light, whereas a paper book may be too bright. But then you could use sunglasses, couldn't you? Always use the best tool.


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As far as the blue light spectrum of the LED light, one might keep in mind that color balance changes all the time and we don't always realize it. Light is very blue in the shade. Most of us have tungsten lightbulbs at home, which are definitely orange. We often have flourescent lights at work, which are green tinged. I suspect your eyes could quickly adapt to the blue LED light if you use it well away from tungsten light sources, which exacerbate the contrast in color temperature.
LED light has made significant strides. It has only recently been developed white enough to use as backlights in LCD televisions and monitors. The blue LED I referred to is, in fact, quite well toward the blue range, well above 9000ºK. These are/were very prevalent in book lights. Very unpleasant. I don't know if the newer ones are used in book lights. Plus LED lighting is very directional. One of these shining from the side/top on a book gave me very uneven lighting, necessitating the constant adjusting of its position. My Daylight24, which employs a cold cathode tube is, by far, the best book light I have ever seen. Alas it is too big to attach to the Jetbook.

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Old 08-22-2009, 01:36 PM   #28
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I admit I am quite amazed at how many readers many MR members own. For me, that is quite out of my budget. When budget constraints arise, one is often forced to choose the best compromise. For the time being, given the price I paid for the jetBook ($120 before tax+ship) I am well satisfied. It's adequate and will serve me well, I hope, for many years. By no means did I expect this to be the ultimate solution.

I expect e-ink to be the ultimate solution.

However, e-ink is also obviously not perfect, and this LCD is fine as a stop gap measure. But make no mistake, the two technologies are quite different, and the original point of my posts was to illustrate the differences.

The directionality of LED lights is controlled by the design of the reflector. That is the key. I'm not sure there are any truly good book light designs compatible with the jetBook. I can handle the color temperature but I can't stand the little 2" spotlight with 3" halo.

BTW, it occurs to me that hand held consoles must have been using LED backlights for quite a few years.

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Old 08-22-2009, 01:40 PM   #29
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On the flip side, the advantage to a darker color background is the ability to read in direct sunlight.

<-------------- snip for brevity ------------------------->

I suppose we do tend to be more attracted to warmth.
So buy a Kindle or one of those new Sonys or better yet a 5" Astak. You don't sound like you want to be convinced, and I don't have a dog in that fight.

I just have a jetBook, and I like it. Warts and all.
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Old 08-22-2009, 05:09 PM   #30
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I admit I am quite amazed at how many readers many MR members own. For me, that is quite out of my budget. When budget constraints arise, one is often forced to choose the best compromise. For the time being, given the price I paid for the jetBook ($120 before tax+ship) I am well satisfied. It's adequate and will serve me well, I hope, for many years. By no means did I expect this to be the ultimate solution.

I expect e-ink to be the ultimate solution.

However, e-ink is also obviously not perfect, and this LCD is fine as a stop gap measure. But make no mistake, the two technologies are quite different, and the original point of my posts was to illustrate the differences.

The directionality of LED lights is controlled by the design of the reflector. That is the key. I'm not sure there are any truly good book light designs compatible with the jetBook. I can handle the color temperature but I can't stand the little 2" spotlight with 3" halo.

BTW, it occurs to me that hand held consoles must have been using LED backlights for quite a few years.
One more thing you may want to try, something I've recently discovered. If you are wearing a white shirt and angle the Jetbook slightly towards it, the Jetbook screen will still become illuminated with out any glare. It sounds silly but I think it is something to experiment with in your light conditions.
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