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Old 04-07-2009, 11:04 AM   #61
kevindorsey
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This is complete BS.
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Old 04-07-2009, 11:07 AM   #62
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Something I'm rather amazed by in this thread is the heated posts assuming they know Ian's full story. I admit I don't know if he was or wasn't being a 'problem' customer to Amazon, but since I'm just offering advice and not calling them myself or crashing their servers it doesn't seem like there is any harm either way to just offer positive advice to him. It just seems to me these personal attacks against Ian are out of place on the forum.

-MJ
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Old 04-07-2009, 11:10 AM   #63
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Gideon... good points.

But I once had an ebay seller ban me from there auctions because I sent an email asking them about there products and pricing. I had never bought anything from them, and now I can't. Not that I really care. But, I thought it was a little overboard. If as a seller you can't take some questioning feedback then I can imagine how good their service would have been. I'm happy I never bought from them.

BOb
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Old 04-07-2009, 11:13 AM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gideon View Post
Don't think for a second, those of you so inclined, that Sony couldn't turn the spigot off as well. if you are purchasing DRM books this is always a risk you have. That is the great evil of DRM.

So don't get too smug. Sony could decide not to do further business with you as well. As could anyone else.
True, but now with the firmware update, even if they turned off the "LRX spigot," we could still get ePub documents on the device. If you read the Amazon uses DMCA to restrict where you can buy e-books thread, Amazon is now saying that you aren't even entitled to know your device's PID, which is what you would need to install DRM'ed Mobipocket books from other sellers onto your Kindle.
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Old 04-07-2009, 11:18 AM   #65
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About the Original Poster:

Just FYI, but he is also posting this stuff on the Amazon Kindle Forums. We were all wondering how he was able to post on there with a banned account?

Anyway, he also stated there that he bought & returned 2 TVs and 'several' cameras. These are high dollar items.

And, he stated that the CS person he spoke to said he had returned 'virtually everything' that he purchased.

Just some more facts because it all sounds a bit fishy to me.
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Old 04-07-2009, 11:30 AM   #66
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I can understand Amazon permanently banning return-crazy customers. They are a business and need to cut costs, but not even sending out a warning letter first seems overly harsh. I guess they assume these customers will never change no matter the threats to ban their accounts.

While Ian may say he's made his returns with no evil intent, the fact remains he crossed whatever line Amazon had set and it's within their rights to ban him.

It still seems too harsh a punishment though. They could just allow him to keep his account but ban further returns, or at least allow him access to the Kindle Store. I think you have to have a bit of loyalty to Amazon to make that Kindle purchase to begin with, and we are "early adopters" of this ebook stuff, so they should at least honor his Kindle purchase and allow him access to Amazon's ebook products.

Last edited by girlzilla; 04-07-2009 at 11:34 AM.
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Old 04-07-2009, 11:33 AM   #67
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Well, we shouldn't be declaring any particular case right or wrong. We don't know.

But assuming good faith... doesn't hurt.

And yeah.. Bob, people are going to get caught in this (like you, like this customer, etc.) that don't necessarily deserve it. Fortunately, most of us can live without shopping at one particular store.

You can still put stuff on your Kindle as well. Plenty doesn't have DRM already. But yes, it's a mess and that's why DRM is so bad and your further options would be severely limited and Amazon has really been a jerk about this DMCA stuff. I'm not trying to defend it - I think DRM is terrible. But the fire and pitchforks attitude some people are taking on isn't exactly becoming, either.
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Old 04-07-2009, 11:41 AM   #68
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True, but now with the firmware update, even if they turned off the "LRX spigot," we could still get ePub documents on the device.
Could someone direct me to a thread explaining what this means? I have a 505, and haven't uploaded the most recent firmware yet (just got the thing a couple weeks ago.) I want to know what I might/might not be able to do once I "upgrade."
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Old 04-07-2009, 11:42 AM   #69
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I wish I really had some way of knowing. Even though I went with the Sony for my new ebook reader, I've been an Amazon fan since it first came into existence. I haven't bought any books except travel guides from them since I went "e," but I still buy plenty of everything else from them.

The KindlePID takedown order to MR left a bad taste in my mouth. If what Ian is saying is true, then it might be the final push that drives me away from Amazon completely.

I'm with the others who are thanking their lucky stars we didn't go with a Kindle. Until the KindlePID incident, I had been recommending Kindle to people who were interested but wanted the simplest possible user experience. Whispernet wins that game hands-down. But if this story is true, it seems like maybe the ease of wireless purchaing may not be worth the risk of the device becoming a partial brick.
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Old 04-07-2009, 11:43 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gideon View Post
Well, we shouldn't be declaring any particular case right or wrong. We don't know.

But assuming good faith... doesn't hurt.

And yeah.. Bob, people are going to get caught in this (like you, like this customer, etc.) that don't necessarily deserve it. Fortunately, most of us can live without shopping at one particular store.

You can still put stuff on your Kindle as well. Plenty doesn't have DRM already. But yes, it's a mess and that's why DRM is so bad and your further options would be severely limited and Amazon has really been a jerk about this DMCA stuff. I'm not trying to defend it - I think DRM is terrible. But the fire and pitchforks attitude some people are taking on isn't exactly becoming, either.
Sure, but revoking access to your Kindle account and, as such, the books you've purchased through it, is analogous to saying "we're no longer accepting you as a customer, and we require you to return any items bought from our store to us without giving you a refund for them.
Preempting the "you're really buying a licence" argument, you had no expectation that that clause would ever be invoked, nor has that clause been tested to see if it actually holds up in court. EULAs are nice, but their legality and reach only goes so far (although they seem to go further in the US than they do in Europe).
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Old 04-07-2009, 11:45 AM   #71
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Could someone direct me to a thread explaining what this means? I have a 505, and haven't uploaded the most recent firmware yet (just got the thing a couple weeks ago.) I want to know what I might/might not be able to do once I "upgrade."
If you got it a couple of weeks ago, you have got the most recent firmware.

Basically, the previous poster meant that you can read Adobe PDF and ePub files on the Reader, in addition to Sony's native "BBeB" format, so you don't have to buy your books at Sony's eBook store.

Hope that helps.
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Old 04-07-2009, 11:47 AM   #72
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Open versus closed. If you acquire a closed system for anything, you are at the mercy of the provider. And the Swindle was designed to be closed from day 1. This is just an example of how "at mercy" a person can be with a closed system.
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Old 04-07-2009, 11:56 AM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snape View Post
Could someone direct me to a thread explaining what this means? I have a 505, and haven't uploaded the most recent firmware yet (just got the thing a couple weeks ago.) I want to know what I might/might not be able to do once I "upgrade."
Check your "Settings"..."About" page on the Reader, and look at the firmware info at the top of the page. The latest firmware is 1.1.00.18040. It adds support for ePub and Adobe Digital Editions, as well as a much-improved PDF reading capability (but still no reflow): http://ebookstore.sony.com/download-firmware/
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Old 04-07-2009, 11:58 AM   #74
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That's a different issue for me. To me that's the argument against DRM. I lost books to Amazon years ago when they quit supporting Adobe DRM. But to me the issue is "banned or not" and I can imagine that banned is site-wide with all the repercussions that come with that.

You get to be angry if you lose your access to DRM books, and sure fight against it, but if you're doing it - you're doing it and knowing the possible ramifications is part of being a diligent consumer. If you get banned and you get to feel that - well, that's just part of being banned.

If someone had it coming, all the more that it was their own fault.

So there is a DRM issue here and a 'banning issue' here. Banning touches on the DRM issue, but the DRM issue transcends just being banned from one particular place.
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Old 04-07-2009, 11:58 AM   #75
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I hesitate to give a great deal of credence to this issue. Amazon does itself no favors by abusing their customers and I dare say they may have their own side of the story. I am a loyal Amazon customer and intend to continue being one.

Ian has stated that since his Amazon account is closed he cannot show how much he has purchased. My credit card statements certainly show where I have made purchases and for how much.

Buying and returning TVs and cameras (and remember folks, the return is on Amazon's nickle) becomes extremely expensive after awhile. I'm inclined to think that perhaps Ian found the items in question at a lower price elsewhere or possibly found that he had financially overextended himself and the easiest relief may have been returning the big ticket items.

Don't create the Troll under the Bridge without need.
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