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Old 04-06-2009, 11:45 PM   #31
Ian
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NavyDad -

I sure hope they read these forums too... and they can see that I'm not a scammer, fraudster, huckster or anything else.

I do believe people who try to game the system or "rent" items should be punished.

But why the good, kind people as well?

I've been such an amazing Kindle evangelist, you have no idea.

-Ian
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Old 04-06-2009, 11:47 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian View Post
1) I've only returned things that were defective, in complete accordance with Amazon's policies. Not once did I ever receive a warning or a cs rep who was less than perfectly happy to process an exchange or return for me.
So, every time you returned something that was defective, you were exchanging it for a working unit.

BOb
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Old 04-06-2009, 11:51 PM   #33
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You should still go to the Consumerist. But check to see if there is an Executive Carpet Bomb you can do first.

The info is here:
http://consumerist.com/consumer/exec...ice-220820.php

Have your ducks in a row. If you've got some big items (and I imagine amazon uses some sort of formula based on the prices of things) that you've returned - explain them well in this letter, but tersely. Look around consumerist for how to write such a letter (or make such a call.)

If that fails, then go through the Consumerist itself. The Kindle angle will probably get their attention, and more to the point it will be an individual story and not a whole forum (who may or may not have been trying to game the system.)

Good luck.
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Old 04-06-2009, 11:57 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by NavyDad6 View Post
Note to self: Make no purchase of electronics from Amazon.com. At all... Ever again... you are banned from my bank account.

I hope that Amazon reads these forums.
That's the route I plan to take. I used to purchase quite a bit of computer parts and consumer electronics from Amazon. I think that practice is going to have to stop. I got my last netbook from them ... I hate to think that, had that unit been defective and I had returned it, I would have lost access to all of my Kindle ebooks.

Much better to just plan a trip into Austin and find a physical store there. And that's sad because I used to purchase almost everything from Amazon ... shoes, clothing, books, electronics. Until I realized that this was the policy, it was my favorite place to shop.

I guess I better just concentrate on backing up my books and finding a new place to shop .....
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Old 04-07-2009, 12:00 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by pilotbob View Post
So, every time you returned something that was defective, you were exchanging it for a working unit.

BOb
Hi Bob-

No, I meant I received a defective unit, then exchanged it - except in each case, the replacement was defective as well (same problem or a different one).

After one, or in a single case, two replacements with problems, I came to the conclusion that there was nothing to do but return it and live without.

Whenever I spoke to cs reps, they were absolutely understanding and happy to process the returns.

No hint that anything was wrong or that they did not want me to continue being a customer. Had they ever questioned me, I would have been happy to go into more detail about the problems or offer to bring them in for warranty service.

-Ian
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Old 04-07-2009, 12:40 AM   #36
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I've heard of people here who have had problems with two or more Kindles they have gotten.

Here's why I think what Amazon is doing is a remarkably bad idea. Amazon wants to move the Kindle into the schools, correct?? They have made it rather clear that they would like to see students using Kindles for their textbooks.

Now, how well is that going to go over, knowing that if mom or dad decides to return a defective product to Amazon, their child's textbooks could be taken away from them, without any notice or appeal?? No refund, and no textbooks.

Bottom line, it's a very bad idea.
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Old 04-07-2009, 02:57 AM   #37
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Interesting problem. I cannot say as I've ever gamed Amazon, and I'm pretty careful to research the products before ordering, so I also cannot say as I've ever much returned items, but I can sympathize, I have one relative that returns a lot, so I'm sitting here wondering if I should switch gifts to her to another supplier from here on in.

Which anyway, led me also to read the Amazon/Kindle terms of service:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/custom...deId=200144530

and that is, well, an eye-opener.

2. Wireless Connectivity

...Amazon reserves the right to discontinue wireless connectivity at any time or to otherwise change the terms for wireless connectivity at any time,...

5. General

Changes to Service. Amazon reserves the right to modify, suspend, or discontinue the Service at any time, and Amazon will not be liable to you should it exercise such right.

_________________________

Now, I suppose this all comes down to legal boilerplate, and there's probably something similar that came with my microwave or TV remote control, just the way things operate in the U.S. these days. Caveat-emptor. But if I had bought a lot of eBooks for my Kindle, only to find it shutdown, whatever the reason, I would be kind of unhappy.
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Old 04-07-2009, 06:48 AM   #38
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Hi all-

I'm leaving for work soon and won't be able to respond or comment during the day, but please let me assure you: I have never once tried to game or scam Amazon.com.

From an external perspective, I can totally see how it looks that way (several exchanged, then returned big-ticket items)...

...but in each of those cases, the products were visibly defective and I'll I ever asked for was a working replacement. When that wasn't happening, I asked for a refund.

I cannot access my account any more, so cannot give you (or Consumerist or the BBB or anyone else) a detailed accounting of my purchasing or returning habits, and certainly, a record of my dealings with customer service (if I could access them) would show that I meant no harm at all and was just unlucky.

Please also note that nowhere have I bad-mouthed Amazon.com or its staff - I'm not trying to start a huge fight here, I only want to resolve this problem so that I can keep on buying from them, and especially be part of this new Kindle resolution.

I can certainly appreciate their right to refuse service to people who try to scam them, but that's not me -- and I'm now closed off to the whole world of Amazon purchasing.

Not just the store, but video on demand and Kindle as well.

Thanks for any advice you all can continue to provide, and I'll check in later today if I hear back from them.

-Ian
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Old 04-07-2009, 07:22 AM   #39
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Hi Ian,

Have you tried contacting the specified address (cis@amazon.com) and asking them to clarify what the "large majority" of items that you requested refunds on were? Perhaps, if you could demonstrate to them that it was in fact NOT a large majority of your orders they will revoke this decision. It is presumably some automated check of their ordering system which "flags" suspicious activity, and for whatever reason it's "flagged" you.
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Old 04-07-2009, 07:50 AM   #40
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The difficult piece of this is that although from a volume perspective it may not appear to be a significant percentage of orders, it's quite possible that from a dollar perspective it does represent a significant portion of orders. The original poster admitted that the returned items were of the larger value type so this is probably having an impact.

Either way, it certainly brings up an interesting issue from the Kindle user perspective. I'm wondering what would happen if he opened another account and tried to add the kindle to the new account. Would it flag it for deactivation as an associated account? If yes then it would present a major issue for him to even try to sell the unit. Looks like Amazon may need to re-think some of it's policies. I have historically done quite a bit of business with them, but I'm seriously starting to re-think some of that.
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Old 04-07-2009, 08:02 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RickyMaveety View Post
I don't return much, but as noted, I don't think I would even consider purchasing electronics from them again. It's simply too risky.
I've never bought electronics from them, but this is clearly something that will prevent me from doing so in the future.

Returns are usually a pain by themselves, but if this can lead you to being banned from their site, this is simply not worth it.
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Old 04-07-2009, 08:05 AM   #42
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I hate to say this, but this makes me more and more happy I bought a Sony.

Please please please write to consumerist. Hopefully it will nont only fix your problem, but prevent this from happening in the future.
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Old 04-07-2009, 08:12 AM   #43
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This is actually not all that uncommon with brick-and-mortar stores either. I'd say sometime in 2007 (I think) there was a fair amount of coverage by the media on the topic. The only store I remember them showing off hand was Best Buy (but they showed dozens). The stores blacklist those they consider problem customers. People that have a habit of holding them to price matching policies and advertised items marked at the wrong prices, as well as returning items. Most of the reporting found the customers to have very reasonable stories, much in line with what Ian is saying.

I would consider sending a letter to your state attorney general's office explaining the situation and the potential losses you'll suffer as a result Amazon's actions. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong but I -think- that is the principal handler for interstate/internet commerce issues of fraud and such? Them simply contacting Amazon might get the issue cleared up. (I wouldn't expect them to do more, but that usually does the trick)

-MJ
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Old 04-07-2009, 08:12 AM   #44
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Quote:
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Please please please write to consumerist. Hopefully it will nont only fix your problem, but prevent this from happening in the future.
I would suggest trying to sort it out with Amazon first, via the provided e-mail address. Bring in 3rd parties only if that proves ineffectual. Given that this is almost unquestionably an automated "flag" that's been raised on the account, determining what specifically has triggered the issue and seeing if that can be sorted out with Amazon would seem the best solution. Personally I've always found Amazon's support people to be reasonable people who try to do their best to help.
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Old 04-07-2009, 08:16 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HarryT View Post
I would suggest trying to sort it out with Amazon first, via the provided e-mail address. Bring in 3rd parties only if that proves ineffectual. Given that this is almost unquestionably an automated "flag" that's been raised on the account, determining what specifically has triggered the issue and seeing if that can be sorted out with Amazon would seem the best solution. Personally I've always found Amazon's support people to be reasonable people who try to do their best to help.
My only issue is that the email to him clearly states to not contact amazon anymore. He can carpet bomb, but if he brings it to consumerist's attention it is in every right of his to do so and might prevent this from happening again.
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