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Old 05-09-2009, 02:09 PM   #406
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well im returning my third kindle 2 secondary to a creak on the left side. will i get banned. shooot Im kinda scared. Oh well. the creak is annoying me.
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Old 05-10-2009, 12:49 PM   #407
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a what?
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Old 05-10-2009, 02:46 PM   #408
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Originally Posted by markm View Post
We apparently sit on different sides of the fence, as much as different sides of the Atlantic. Personally, I think that the Kindle (as much as the Sony) is a rich-kids gizmo rather than something of any practical value. It is large, fragile, complex, useless without batteries or Internet, far overpriced, and when used as intended, more expensive and inflexible per publication than the books it strives to replace. That said, having known many Macintosh owners, I completely understand why you're such an Amazon apologist.

E-book readers have the potential to be so much more than they are today. But publishers and self-proclaimed authors' guilds will never allow that to happen. Just imagine if I could slide my library card into the side of my e-book reader and borrow (for free) or rent (for a few cents) a copy of any book ever published. That is a product I'd pay $400 for. Not some proprietary interface to overpriced, DRM-laden temporary copies of books I can never sell or even loan to another person, or take hiking in the woods, or camping in the desert, or sunbathing on the beach.

But I digress.
Can I continue with your digression?

My ebook (OK, it's a Sony) is far more than a 'rich kid gizmo' and has tons of practical value for me. It is my go-to device for leisure reading,and has drawn me back into the fold of avid reading after many years of work/websurfing and too few fun books.

As some background, I have TONS of books on dozens of overloaded shelves and bookcases at home, and I still read some of those. But the Reader is a great device that allows me to bring TONS of books with me wherever I go: on the subway, on the beach, in the woods, on vacation, etc. (Why do you suggest that it can't be used for hiking, etc.?) The Reader's battery lasts AT LEAST 2 full weeks with daily use. No need for constant charging--I never really deal with this anyway--adding books occasionally charges me back up for weeks. (I even have one of those thin folding solar chargers, although Ive never needed it.)

I buy a few ebooks, but borrow most from online libraries or find free/CC books online everywhere. The price of ebooks is minimal. But the convenience and availability are huge. I have about 200 books in my internal memory--something to read for any mood--including generally 2-3 borrowed library books. All of this in a handy-sized device that weights just a few ounces, is easy on the eyes (*MUCH* better than any backlit phone or netbook display, and yes, I do use a netbook as well for work), and which I never really worry about running out of power. (No need to charge every 1- days like a cellphone--it's good for even a 1-2 week vacation.) I even use my Reader in our steambath, where reading a regular book is not even possible.

My Reader has been an extraordinary value to me in terms of convenience, variety, an pure reading enjoyment. So, I respectfully disagree with your assertions above.
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Old 05-10-2009, 06:51 PM   #409
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markm View Post
We apparently sit on different sides of the fence, as much as different sides of the Atlantic. Personally, I think that the Kindle (as much as the Sony) is a rich-kids gizmo rather than something of any practical value. It is large, fragile, complex, useless without batteries or Internet, far overpriced, and when used as intended, more expensive and inflexible per publication than the books it strives to replace. That said, having known many Macintosh owners, I completely understand why you're such an Amazon apologist.

E-book readers have the potential to be so much more than they are today. But publishers and self-proclaimed authors' guilds will never allow that to happen. Just imagine if I could slide my library card into the side of my e-book reader and borrow (for free) or rent (for a few cents) a copy of any book ever published. That is a product I'd pay $400 for. Not some proprietary interface to overpriced, DRM-laden temporary copies of books I can never sell or even loan to another person, or take hiking in the woods, or camping in the desert, or sunbathing on the beach.

But I digress. On the matter of Amazon itself I believe that, as a customer paying good money for a supposedly serviceable product, I reserve the right to determine if that product satisfactorily meets its description and specifications upon receipt of the actual physical item, and if not, to either exchange it for one that is satisfactory or return it for a refund.

In a brick-and-mortar system, I can inspect and test a product before I pay and leave the store. In an e-commerce environment, my inspection and testing cannot occur until after I've paid and the item is received. But in either event, how can it be legal or moral for me to be penalized for returning something I find is unacceptable by comparison to its advertised description or specifications, or by comparison to like units of its type?

Are my rights as a participant in a retail exchange not the same just because I chose e-commerce versus brick-and-mortar? Does the concept of Quid Pro Quo not apply? Is Amazon really big enough to redefine the terms of a retail purchase?

What do you think the Federal Trade Commission would say about this? Or better yet, a good class-action law firm?
Please allow me to respond.

The Kindle is most certainly NOT a "rich kids gizmo". While I did shell out $359 for mine, I saved for some time before I got it. Its a matter of priorities, you see. True, the ad on Amazons main Kindle page (I am speaking here of the K1, not K2) did pique my interest, the thought of carrying all the books I wanted in a device that small was too good to resist.

As for "brick and mortor", vs "online", I've dealt with Amazon.com for years. I had the utmost faith they would honor the return policy......it would have cost me $8 at the most to return it if i hadn't been satisfied. Amazon Kindle support has been superior, both with myself, and with the majority of customers. Compare that to buying a Sony at Target, for example, with clerks who know nothing about it. All I got was blank stares when I asked questions. One even thought it was a CD player.

Its not large, it fits in my purse perfectly, and anything smaller is a strain on the eyes.

Fragile? I treat it as I would my laptop, or a netbook. Both need padded carriers in transporting, right? If I dropped my Kindle OR my laptop, well, they are electronic devices after all.

Complex? You're kidding, right? Is that why so many "mature" people have them? They are ready out of the box to use, and are designed to be user friendly.

Useless without batteries ? Are you aware you can plug them in and read while they are charging? As a matter of fact, those are the first instructions given when you take them out of the box.
.
Is there any ebook reader out there that can be used without downloading books from the internet to your computer?

I can take it camping, or to the beach. Just pop it into a baggie at the beach, and problem solved.

There are car battery and I'm told, solar battery chargers available.

The thousands of free books out there, written by authors whose talents have withstood the test of time, more than pay for the Kindle.

I am not a "mac" person. I am not an "Amazon Apologist", whatever that is. I rate them on their record of service to me.

Now, lets talk Library usage. Yes, you can download books to your laptop, and from there, using a simple (even for me) script, onto your Kindle, where they will automatically "close" after the checkout period.

Practical Value. Well, lets see. I have over 300 books on my K1 right now. I can read anywhere, anytime. Any book. And, if I don't care to read one of those books already downloaded, I can do one of two things.

I can turn on Whispernet, and download any book Amazon has in Kindle format. For a fee, of course. Just like going into a bookstore.

I can log onto MobileRead, feedbooks, manybooks.net, or other sites and download any of their free ebooks with a click of a button

How much more "practical" do you want?

Last edited by desertgrandma; 05-11-2009 at 12:09 AM.
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Old 05-10-2009, 10:34 PM   #410
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desertgrandma View Post
Please allow me to respond.

The Kindle is most certainly NOT a "rich kids gizmo". While I did shell out $359 for mine, I saved for some time before I got it. Its a matter of priorities, you see. True, the ad on Amazons main Kindle page (I am speaking here of the K1, not K2) did pique my interest, the thought of carrying all the books I wanted in a device that small was too good to resist.
(snip)
Go Desertgrandma! I love mine too. And yes, I hesitated a long time and didn't buy one until I had enough money scraped together. But a Kindle is worth eating ramen for. In my opinion, anyway.

(Regarding the public domain books--just finished _Pride and Prejudice_ a second time. Good stuff.)
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Old 05-10-2009, 10:43 PM   #411
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Originally Posted by catsittingstill View Post
Go Desertgrandma! I love mine too. And yes, I hesitated a long time and didn't buy one until I had enough money scraped together. But a Kindle is worth eating ramen for. In my opinion, anyway.

(Regarding the public domain books--just finished _Pride and Prejudice_ a second time. Good stuff.)
Thank you. I think in todays world, many people have lost the ability to 'save up' for something.

For the sake of instant gratification, "wants" (not "needs") go on the credit card, and before you know it, people are deep in debt.

And I'd like to edit your post just a little........"any brand ebook reader is worth eating ramen for".........
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Old 05-10-2009, 11:37 PM   #412
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When I first saw the Kindle, I wanted one badly but thought the price was way more than I could justify (and I am an avid book reader who could afford it). I had a $200 price point in mind before I would jump. However, when the credit card deal came along which took $100 off the price, I couldn't resist.

Much to my surprise - between the library, free books, discounted bestsellers, and the sample capability (reducing impulse buys), my Kindle actually ended up paying for itself.
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Old 05-11-2009, 07:03 PM   #413
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Quote:
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(snip)
And I'd like to edit your post just a little........"any brand ebook reader is worth eating ramen for".........
True. I wasn't very tempted by the Sony because I'm a Mac user and I read that the Sony store wouldn't work with Macs. But there are lots of good e-book readers out there, and other people's needs won't necessarily match mine.

When I sit down and think about the number of free books (publisher's promos, CC licenses, Project Gutenberg books) that I've gotten because of the Kindle, I realize it was a good deal for more than just the convenience, too.

But I have to admit the up-front cost is a little daunting.
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Old 05-11-2009, 07:24 PM   #414
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Yeah, ereaders are hardly priced at point to make them "rich kids toys."

They're priced to make them only worthwhile to Avid readers, but that's true of ANY new technology. New technology is expensive and early adopters are by nature generally limited to people who are big into the particular hobby/area.

DVD players, Blu Ray players etc. when they first launched were really limited to movie buffs willing to pay a few hundred bucks to watch the movies they love in the best picture quality available.

Ereaders are currently only worth it to people who read a lot, as they just cost too much for casual readers. Prices will have to come down a good bit for them to be worthwhile to the person who just reads a handful of books a year.

And of course, I don't mean to ignore that "value" also depends a lot on how much disposable income one has. To some people the $200-400 for a reader is a lot of bank, to others it's pocket change.

But it's hardly a rich kid's toy. It's a decent value for people who read a lot and want an electronic reader for various reasons. And as prices come down it will be come worth it to different thresholds of readers.

For me, $200 was my limit, and that's what I paid for my used K1 when the K2 launched.
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Old 05-11-2009, 07:41 PM   #415
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Rocket Ebook (1998-2001?)
It'll never sell till they can figure out how to get rid of the paragraph spaces.
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Old 06-16-2009, 03:58 AM   #416
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I support people who send back defective products.
Too many companies clearly despise customers. Not only by producing mediocre products, but simply by disinforming customers: they do not clearly state the flaws/weaknesses of their products, they do not clearly say so if their product is inferior to another one. Some who have become cynical would say it is normal. No, it is not. Companies try to make money first and foremost because accountants have the power, but it only shows that capitalism is a flawed society since the rules of accountancy lead to so much mediocrity, deception, lies, dissatisfaction,...
Organizations that produce goods and services should have as their first priority the satisfaction of the customer.
The only way to do that would be to have stockholders replaced by citizens managing production democratically with the workers.
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Old 06-16-2009, 05:28 AM   #417
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On the Apple forums there are quite a few people who will return a laptop 15 times
until they get one that they think is "just right" . They explain this without any seeming embarrassment.

Seriously, I don't believe they are tying to get over on anyone. They are just perfectionists.

Unfortunately, this perfectionism doesn't work well with big ticket items
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Old 06-16-2009, 05:52 AM   #418
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Still, this is an old thread that's better left dead.
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Old 03-23-2011, 06:55 PM   #419
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I applaud Kindle for it's action.
The money you cost Amazon by returning the majority of the things you buy doesn't just get eaten by Amazon.
That cost is passed on to the rest of us.
Yeah Amazon, good work.
I'm a 48 year old and the next item I return to a store, will be the first item I return the store.
You're a menace to society and I'm thrilled Amazon did something about it.
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Old 03-23-2011, 07:09 PM   #420
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I applaud Kindle for it's action.
The money you cost Amazon by returning the majority of the things you buy doesn't just get eaten by Amazon.
That cost is passed on to the rest of us.
Yeah Amazon, good work.
I'm a 48 year old and the next item I return to a store, will be the first item I return the store.
You're a menace to society and I'm thrilled Amazon did something about it.
You're going to be popular.
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