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Old 04-20-2009, 03:41 PM   #361
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I did not call anyone any worse names than troll I used various forms of sh*t as a verb, not a noun.

and spade is a spade, troll is a troll
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Old 04-20-2009, 04:13 PM   #362
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Hello-

I had not intended on posting any further to this thread; as I wrote a few days ago, my only goal in posting my story at all (to three forums: here, Amazon's own forum, and the TiVoCommunity forum) was to get advice on what I might to do get my Amazon account reinstated. Once my account WAS reinstated by Amazon 24 hours later, and I reported back, I personally felt that the issue was resolved and my participation was over: time to get back to reading books on my Kindle!

Bottom line: Amazon has been increasing their efforts to catch fraudsters (something I support fully), I got accidentally caught up in the sweep, I explained myself to them, asked them to take a second look at my account, they did it and reinstated me right away. Problem solved, case closed.

Or so I thought...

I truly had hoped that this (and the related) threads would then naturally fade away - and I am shocked and surprised that they have not.

As I said, I didn't plan on contributing any further to this discussion, but some recent comments have led me to want to clarify a few things which may be leading to some misunderstandings:

- I have had, and have only ever had, one Amazon account. If I used the word "accounts" previously, it was a regrettable typo.

- You actually don't need to have an active Amazon account to contribute to their forums: your computer just needs to be logged in. For some reason, even after my being banned, a cookie on my browser at home showed me as being "logged in" to the forum (but not the store itself) which allowed me to post. People on Amazon's own boards have confirmed this can happen. My work computer, however, HAD logged out, and during the ban, I was not able to log back in (and therefore post) from the office.

- Nowhere in any of my initial posts (or this one) did I write (or intend to write) any negative comments about Amazon.com, a company with whom I've had many good experiences over the years. I understand that many people feel that I am anti-Amazon: that is simply not the case. All I was ever doing was seeking advice to help me solve a confusing and distressing situation.

I appreciate that everyone has their own opinion of my experience and my story - and while I don't feel there's anything I can do (or should do) to sway certain opinions, all I will say that Amazon's quick reinstatement of my account is proof enough, for me at least, that they believed what I wrote. And that's all I ever asked for.

I hope this clarifies things... truly, while I appreciate all good and fair discussions, as a moderator here recently pointed out, this thread seems to be devolving into a lot of anger and name-calling (directed both at Amazon and myself), and may have outlasted its usefulness.

I'd love it if we could all just go back to enjoying our new toys and reading books - anyone else agree?

Thanks for listening-

-Ian

Last edited by Ian; 04-20-2009 at 04:18 PM.
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Old 04-20-2009, 04:16 PM   #363
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I'd love it if we could all just go back to enjoying our new toys and reading books - anyone else agree?
i agree.

thanks Ian for the clarification. i'm glad you got your problem sorted out and i hope you'll stick around the forum for other discussions, to make the most of your kindle. happy reading !
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Old 04-20-2009, 04:25 PM   #364
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yes, that's fine as far as I am concerned. my issue from the very beginning has been the aspersions cast upon Amazon due to some very confusing posts you made. it seems that you could have tended this topic at little more closely and cleared some of the issues up.

now there are people afraid of returning kindle covers they don't like or want because of the hysteria this induced.
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Old 04-20-2009, 05:11 PM   #365
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... my issue from the very beginning has been the aspersions cast upon Amazon due to some very confusing posts you made....
Are you Jeff Bezos in a period dress? In any event, aspersions were also cast upon Ian....

But seriously, the Amazon email above is unclear.

It may indicate recent change/clarification of their position, after the flack they received.

Or it may not be relevant to Ian's issue.

Or it may mean they don't repossess your Kindle, but just ban you from purchasing ebooks, or storing the books you purchased on their servers (which, if you do not/cannot strip the DRM, deprives you of something you paid a fair price for.)

Or it may be only the take of the CSR who responded.

Amazon really needs to clarify its position a bit better, both on this issue, and on the surreptitious tampering with search results.

Last edited by Sonist; 04-20-2009 at 05:13 PM.
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Old 04-20-2009, 05:13 PM   #366
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nope, no jeff here. I just get really frustrated with heresay, bandwagons and so on. 500 years ago I would have been the one standing in front of the stake shouting down the villagers when they wanted to "burn the witch". I would have demanded proof (and no doubt been burned in the process, but hey! ya gotta have faith!)
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Old 04-20-2009, 05:29 PM   #367
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nope, no jeff here. I just get really frustrated with heresay....
Not to pick a bone with an Anubis-like guru, but there were plenty of heresay statements regarding Ian's statement, without any proof whatsoever.

And while I can't vouch for his story, it seemed plausible enough, it had some extraneous support, and certainly did not warrant some of the aspersions cast.

Again, it is up to Amazon to clarify its position on this issue, and on the deceptive Search results issue. If it does not, I doubt this will be the last time we hear about it.
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Old 04-20-2009, 05:37 PM   #368
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*shrug*
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Old 04-20-2009, 05:51 PM   #369
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Not to pick a bone with an Anubis-like guru, but there were plenty of heresay statements regarding Ian's statement, without any proof whatsoever.

And while I can't vouch for his story, it seemed plausible enough, it had some extraneous support, and certainly did not warrant some of the aspersions cast.

Again, it is up to Amazon to clarify its position on this issue, and on the deceptive Search results issue. If it does not, I doubt this will be the last time we hear about it.
In addition to Ian's post, there was the whole thing over at Consumerist some months ago where people also discussed not being able to access purchased downloads. I do think there was enough evidence to be concerned. I really would like to see an official statement from Amazon on their policy. Not to cast any aspersions on joblack. I thank him for trying to clear this up for us and have no reason to doubt him, but with so many conflicting reports it would be nice to have more than the word of a single CS rep.
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Old 04-22-2009, 02:46 PM   #370
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(blink) Hmm. Maybe I bought the wrong e-book reader. You know of an e-book reader that is not large, or fragile, or complex and that works without batteries or the internet?

I'm interested. Tell me more. Especially the part about how it works without batteries.
It's called a "book," more specifically, a paperback.
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Old 04-22-2009, 03:07 PM   #371
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They'd say the same thing the judge would say. You have no just cause.
That's not necessarily true. Judges can and do set aside terms of a contract if they violate the law, infringe upon civil rights, or take advantage of a dominant position to unfairly skew the quid pro quo.

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When Amazon chose not to continue to do business with him in the future they simply chose to exercise their rights. Brick and Mortar stores can do the same thing. Business don't exist to make customers feel warm and fuzzy inside, they exist to make money. When you have customers that are an expense rather than a revenue the logical thing to do is get rid of them.
But a retail store is a place of public accommodation and has legal obligations to serve all comers without prejudice. Lacking written policies explaining the specifics of how one can be banned from Amazon and without prior warning and opportunity to correct his behavior, Ian may well have assumed he was targeted due to his ethnic background, his religious beliefs or his age, or a combination of factors. In an industry such as e-commerce, which is so concerned with written policies and disclaimers and such, the lack of documentation on how and why customers can be banned from Amazon is an conspicuous anomaly.
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Old 04-22-2009, 03:23 PM   #372
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Al Gore probably heard a lot of the same kind of comments when he was inventing the internet, and look at it now.
The Internet is an example of technology that makes sense. It's provided cheep access to an almost unlimited wealth information and entertainment, while helping to drive down the prices of traditional brick-and-mortar goods. I pay around $400/year for Internet service but I derive many thousands of dollars in savings and other benefits by using it.

An e-book reader is an example of technology that makes no sense, at least not to a consumer. An e-book reader costs $400 + maybe $40/year in electricity to keep it charged. At $9.99 each, books are the same price or more expensive in digital format than paperback. Much more expensive if you factor in discount pricing (e.g., Costco, Sams Club, B&N discount, etc...), used book resale, and borrowing from the library. Once purchased, a digital book cannot be resold. I cannot stack my digital books on shelves in my library. I cannot sell, loan or donate my digital book when I'm done reading it. If my e-book reader dies, something it will surely do every 3- to 5-years, I may not be able to re-read my digital books on my new device.

There are some specialized applications where an e-book reader might make sense, but those applications can just as easily be satisfied by a Tablet-PC, Netbook or Notebook-PC without requiring the user to carry a second electronic device. For general situations, ink on paper yields the best value and availability.

Last edited by markm; 04-22-2009 at 03:25 PM.
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Old 04-22-2009, 03:54 PM   #373
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An e-book reader is an example of technology that makes no sense, at least not to a consumer. An e-book reader costs $400 + maybe $40/year in electricity to keep it charged. At $9.99 each, books are the same price or more expensive in digital format than paperback. Much more expensive if you factor in discount pricing (e.g., Costco, Sams Club, B&N discount, etc...), used book resale, and borrowing from the library.
Keeping a computer running costs much more p.A. But anyway there might be reasons beside the price that makes a consumer wanting an e-book reader. ("gadget factor", mobile library, quick access specialist books, just no room left in the apartment because there are already five bookshelfs, ...)

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There are some specialized applications where an e-book reader might make sense, but those applications can just as easily be satisfied by a Tablet-PC, Netbook or Notebook-PC without requiring the user to carry a second electronic device. For general situations, ink on paper yields the best value and availability.
You do forget that tablet-PC and netbooks and so on are much less handy and "mobile" than an e-book-reader. The e-ink display is much better for the eyes than a usual LCD. (and i have to know it: wearing glasses, using LCDs the whole day as programmer, using an e-ink reader for reading)
I just can't read with an LCD in the evening (or night) after sitting the whole day in front of one. My eyes get tired, i get headache... This is not the case when i read on my E-INK-device.
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Old 04-22-2009, 04:00 PM   #374
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, Ian may well have assumed he was targeted due to his ethnic background, his religious beliefs or his age, or a combination of factors. In an industry such as e-commerce, which is so concerned with written policies and disclaimers and such, the lack of documentation on how and why customers can be banned from Amazon is an conspicuous anomaly.
that's a hell of an inference from e-communication, and I am accustomed to being mixed up with the opposite sex.

anyway... I thought this matter had been pretty much put to bed.
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Old 04-22-2009, 05:07 PM   #375
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The Internet is an example of technology that makes sense. It's provided cheep access to an almost unlimited wealth information and entertainment, while helping to drive down the prices of traditional brick-and-mortar goods. I pay around $400/year for Internet service but I derive many thousands of dollars in savings and other benefits by using it.

An e-book reader is an example of technology that makes no sense, at least not to a consumer. An e-book reader costs $400 + maybe $40/year in electricity to keep it charged. At $9.99 each, books are the same price or more expensive in digital format than paperback. Much more expensive if you factor in discount pricing (e.g., Costco, Sams Club, B&N discount, etc...), used book resale, and borrowing from the library. Once purchased, a digital book cannot be resold. I cannot stack my digital books on shelves in my library. I cannot sell, loan or donate my digital book when I'm done reading it. If my e-book reader dies, something it will surely do every 3- to 5-years, I may not be able to re-read my digital books on my new device.

There are some specialized applications where an e-book reader might make sense, but those applications can just as easily be satisfied by a Tablet-PC, Netbook or Notebook-PC without requiring the user to carry a second electronic device. For general situations, ink on paper yields the best value and availability.
I'm pretty sure internet connection wasn't "cheep" when it was first deployed. Neither are computers. I remember my parents buying our first one for $2,000 (IBM clone). It had a blazing fast 486DX2 processor, a whopping 16MB RAM and a massive 500MB hard drive. What problem did it actually solve? Nothing really. In fact, it was an added headache to my parents because instead of doing my homework, I was playing on the computer. Typing up homework and stuff (no widespread internet at the time) can easily be done on the typewriter. The cartridge for the dot matrix printer is also a great deal more expensive than typewriter ribbon.

MP3 players were expensive when they were first released. I think the first one cost $250 and had around 32 or 64MB of storage. Nowadays, you can get 1GB no-name portable audio players for $10.

Yes, ebook readers are expensive now and yes, so are ebooks (this one's harder to stomach, specially when brand new paperbacks sometimes cost less). However, that's just how technology works. New tech is expensive, but as more people use the technology, manufacturing costs go down, more players (manufacturers) get into the game to get their slice of the pie, competition goes up and retail prices go down.

By the way, I have no complaints whatsoever that ebooks don't take up any physical space on my bookshelves. All my shelves are full and I even have books underneath the bed, the couch, the entertainment center, in boxes, etc.
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