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Old 12-12-2010, 10:46 PM   #46
avid-e-reader
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20 months later... does kindlegen yet support waypoints? What must be added to the .ncx and/or .opf files, or point me to documentation. The latest I found doesn't mention waypoints.
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Old 12-12-2010, 11:04 PM   #47
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KindleGen supports waypoints, but there are some creation/display quirks.

You need to make a valid NCX and link it properly via the OPF in the way that KindleGen likes to see it. If you have even a slight error in doing either, it'll ignore everything.

Also, there seems to be a limit on the number of NCX entries you can make before it starts to choke on stuff, but that probably won't be a problem for you.

Here are two earlier threads which perhaps you may find useful:Hope this helps, and welcome to MobileRead!
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Old 12-12-2010, 11:05 PM   #48
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If you use Kindlegen to create a MOBI file from a suite of files including an OPF and NCX file, the resulting MOBI file will incorporate the waypoints coded in the NCX file. It's still the case that Kindle won't recognise nested waypoints, but as long as you keep a "flat" structure in the NCX file, the Kindle will recognise the waypoints, and the 5-way control on the Kindle can be used to jump to the next/previous waypoint in the book.

I'm afraid I don't know what the current situation is regarding MOBI files created using Calibre.
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Old 12-17-2010, 03:43 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ATDrake View Post
KindleGen supports waypoints, but there are some creation/display quirks.

You need to make a valid NCX and link it properly via the OPF in the way that KindleGen likes to see it. If you have even a slight error in doing either, it'll ignore everything.

Also, there seems to be a limit on the number of NCX entries you can make before it starts to choke on stuff, but that probably won't be a problem for you.

Here are two earlier threads which perhaps you may find useful:Hope this helps, and welcome to MobileRead!
The limit thread above seems to be the wrong one? The link points to battery indicator problems. I have 400+ chapters, but they are 1-4 pages (depending on your font size, screen size, etc.)

I must have a "slight error" such as you allude to, as I get no waypoints. I changed my id= and src= to be the same instead of different per the second link you supplied, but I could see no difference. As far as I could tell, I was doing the rest of the stuff correctly.

Is it because I'm using Kindle for PC as a test bed (my friend has a Kindle, and I'm trying to make this for him)? Does anyone know if Kindle for PC handles waypoints? I'll likely get feedback on this latest version from my friend tomorrow, but I could see no difference on K4PC.

Does someone have a book with waypoints they could share so I could see the effect on K4PC, if any?

Does someone have such a book, and also its source, that they could share?

Sadly, I cannot share my data, because of non-disclosure agreements. I could probably work up a sample of other data, though, since I wrote a Python script to generate the HTML/NCX/OPF files from other markup.
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Old 12-17-2010, 03:45 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DMSmillie View Post
If you use Kindlegen to create a MOBI file from a suite of files including an OPF and NCX file, the resulting MOBI file will incorporate the waypoints coded in the NCX file. It's still the case that Kindle won't recognise nested waypoints, but as long as you keep a "flat" structure in the NCX file, the Kindle will recognise the waypoints, and the 5-way control on the Kindle can be used to jump to the next/previous waypoint in the book.

I'm afraid I don't know what the current situation is regarding MOBI files created using Calibre.
Thanks, Donna, I have a flat TOC, anyway.
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Old 12-17-2010, 04:16 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by avid-e-reader View Post
The limit thread above seems to be the wrong one? The link points to battery indicator problems.
Oops, copy-paste didn't catch all the URL. Here's the corrected link, sorry about that.


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IDoes anyone know if Kindle for PC handles waypoints? I'll likely get feedback on this latest version from my friend tomorrow, but I could see no difference on K4PC.
That might be it. I haven't fired up K4Mac for awhile, but I seem to not recall any waypoints in its location bar, though I could be misremembering. What does show waypoints is Amazon's Kindle Previewer app, which simulates K2, DX, and K4iPhone.

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Does someone have a book with waypoints they could share so I could see the effect on K4PC, if any?

Does someone have such a book, and also its source, that they could share?
All the ones I've hand-assembled for myself are from my Fictionwise and other purchases, so I can't exactly pass them around, sorry to say.

But if you head over to the Fifth Imperium site which hosts the contents of those freely redistributable Baen promotional CDs, on the one for Lois McMaster Bujold's Cryoburn, if you get the ePub copy for Cordelia's Honor and convert it to Mobi using Amazon's KindleGen, it shows up with waypoints. I know this because that's how I got my own copy to read on the Kindle, and can easily flick between the chapters.

Just unzip the ePub and look at how the NCX is structured, and there's your source.

Incidentally, I'll mention that multi-level NCX work fine on the Kindle if they're done properly. People just think they don't because the Kindle only shows the top-level in the location bar as flickable points. But once you navigate to a second-level point, you can flick between the ones a that level, although they're still invisible.

B&N's Barnes & Noble Classics line's Pride and Prejudice version, which they give you a free copy of when you sign up for an account with them and also happens to be DRM-free, illustrates this perfectly, and you can take it apart to see how it's done in the source, as well as convert it to Mobi and try it out on the Kindle Previewer.

Hope this helps.
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Old 12-17-2010, 05:24 PM   #52
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Thanks, ATDrake, for the helpful hints and new and updated links.

So I guess I can't tell the difference between kindlegen for the PC not generating waypoints, and K4PC not showing them, but after changing Cordelia's Honor's content.opf file to have only "en-us" in the <dc:language> tag (got an error the first time), then it generated successfully, and shows no waypoints on K4PC.

Will send that to my friend with a hardware kindle and see if it has waypoints there.

Hmm. OK, Kindle Previewer shows the waypoints like you suggested. However, it seems Kindle Previewer is named Kindle Previewer rather than Kindle Emulator for a reason... I can't figure out any way to do a search in Kindle Previewer.

However, my waypoints show up fine, and I can hop between chapters, so that is good! I'm at only 10% of the limits of the guy that ran into the limits of 4064 waypoints, so I'll let him push the limits.

I note that even after seeing waypoints on Kindle Previewer, I still find nothing like them in K4PC, so I guess it is just a missing feature. K4PC does have search, though, of some sort.

But that sort of lessens the benefit of Kindle as a cross-platform viewer tool, if each of the tools has a different subset of Kindle features. I can understand that on different platforms, some features may have to be implemented differently, due to different hardware controls/controllers, but it seems that the features should all be there Oh well, maybe someday. Another friend tells me that search isn't implemented in K4Blackberry... I'll have to ask him about waypoints... but if K4PC doesn't do them, it seems unlikely that a search-free K4BB will.
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Old 12-17-2010, 05:38 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ATDrake View Post
Incidentally, I'll mention that multi-level NCX work fine on the Kindle if they're done properly. People just think they don't because the Kindle only shows the top-level in the location bar as flickable points. But once you navigate to a second-level point, you can flick between the ones a that level, although they're still invisible.
That's interesting, and useful to know. I thought I had tested a nested NCX file and verified that the Kindle didn't pick up on the nested waypoints, but it was a while ago now, and perhaps I missed something. Thanks for the heads up on that.
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Old 02-07-2011, 04:46 PM   #54
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[QUOTE=DMSmillie;1268661
I'm afraid I don't know what the current situation is regarding MOBI files created using Calibre.[/QUOTE]

If you convert your book to Mobi using Calibre, it will make the way points. Unfortunately, it messes with the paragraph indentations so that any paragraph that begins with an italicized word or one in bold print will have an indentation that's different from all the other paragraphs.

I submitted a request for a bug fix a year ago, but I guess it doesn't have any kind of priority.

Jim
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Old 02-08-2011, 12:23 AM   #55
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Unfortunately, it messes with the paragraph indentations so that any paragraph that begins with an italicized word or one in bold print will have an indentation that's different from all the other paragraphs.

I submitted a request for a bug fix a year ago, but I guess it doesn't have any kind of priority.
More likely it was just overlooked, sometimes a gentle reminder is required. I just looked at this bug, the Mobi you attached to that bug not is defining indents in a best practice way, it's using non-breaking spaces instead of the text-indent style.

There is an option under Heuristics called 'Replace Entity Indents with CSS Indents'. That function will correct docs with formatting such as your example in the next release.

I also explained the root cause of the problem in the original bug, it's possible that mobi output may be modified so that this gets fixed without any special options.
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Old 02-08-2011, 05:29 PM   #56
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I'd appreciate your elaborating on your second paragraph. Where would I find the "replace entity indents with CSS indents" indicator? I see nothing in Calibre that allows me to do that.

I do appreciate your following up on my request for a bug fix. Perhaps, since you speak his language, Kovid will follow-up.

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Old 02-08-2011, 05:53 PM   #57
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On the conversion dialog window, there's an option in the menu on the left - "heuristic processing". If you select that, you'll see there are a series of options that can be selected or deselected, and one of them is "replace entity indents with CSS indents". Attached JPG shows the relevant dialog.
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Old 02-08-2011, 06:22 PM   #58
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Thanks for your help. I had a slightly older version of Calibre (0.7.34) which did not have the Heuristics option. If you deselect everything but the "replace entity indents with CSS indents" it doesn't solve the indentation problem. But if you keep all the options selected, it does.

Also thanks to Idolse for the information.

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Old 02-08-2011, 07:26 PM   #59
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However, it's clearly not a panacea. Using the heuristic setting, it turned one book into all italics, and using it on another, none of the italics were indented. Not sure the results are worth it, frankly.

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Old 02-08-2011, 07:58 PM   #60
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As I said before - I had to modify the fix indents option to cover your doc's formatting - I hadn't come across that specific type of formatting before. Calibre next release will cover your case.

I didn't see any issues around italics when I tested the changes - they were indented and preserved.
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