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Old 03-20-2009, 03:15 AM   #1
jbruce
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Deleting Books - doesn't get rid of collection

Am I missing some step in the process here? or, do I need a live chicken and candles?

Here's the Story:

Downloaded the font test series AndyBaby was kind enough to participate in. Put them into Calibre. Made them a collection. Uploaded to device. Unmounted the device. Then deleted the books in the collection one at a time via the device.

Now - there are no books in the collection. Yet the collection remains listed in the PRS 700. And, there is no option to "Delete Collection." Lastly, it doesn't appear that there is an XML file (that I can see) which has the collections listed.

Therefore, I have an empty collection on my eReader - and want to remove it. How?

Thanks in advance.

Cheers,
Josh

Last edited by jbruce; 03-20-2009 at 03:20 AM. Reason: clarified steps
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Old 03-20-2009, 03:30 AM   #2
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Just send another book to the reader that is part of a collection, not neccessarily the same collection
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Old 03-20-2009, 03:38 AM   #3
jbruce
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Thank you kindly Kovid.

Wonder if this should be natural behavior (or, at least an option) on the device? delete collection; wherein the books would be deleted as well. Moreover, wondering why the collection remains when it's empty?

Might have to send an email to Sony.

Cheers,
Josh

Last edited by jbruce; 03-20-2009 at 03:46 AM.
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Old 03-20-2009, 03:39 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbruce View Post
Thank you kindly Kovid.

Wonder if this should be natural behavior (or, at least an option) on the device? delete collection; wherein the books would be deleted as well. Moreover, wondering why the collection remains when it's empty?

Might have to send an email to Sony.

Cheers,
Josh
I don't currently use Calibre, but may in the future. I am using the Sony eBook Library software.

If you right-click on the collection on the PRS700 you have the option to delete the collection (empty or full), with a double check to make sure you want to. The book remains on the reader but isn't associated with a collection and must be deleted separately. I therefore don't think that this is a SOny problem.

WDE.
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Old 03-20-2009, 07:26 PM   #5
jbruce
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Quote:
The book remains on the reader but isn't associated with a collection and must be deleted separately.
Thanks WDE for letting me know.

What I was referring to was mainly without being connected to any software (Calibre or Sony).

One would think (or at least I would) - if all the books in the collection were deleted - the collection would no longer be listed (because no books would have that "category/tag"). Or, similar to "delete book" being available in the options menu - when one is in the collection book list "delete collection" would be available in the options menu (which would delete the books & the collection in one step).

That's why I was thinking Sony would need to do something about it. Or, I could be the only one thinking this it strange and inelegant user experience - that it can't be done unless connected to a computer.

Thanks again for letting me know.

Cheers,
J

Last edited by jbruce; 03-20-2009 at 08:52 PM. Reason: Testing something
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Old 03-20-2009, 08:14 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by jbruce View Post
Unmounted the device. Then deleted the books in the collection one at a time via the device.
My apologies, I missed that bit.

I agree, that once you delete all of the books in a collection you would think that the collection would be gone, or at least have the ability to delete the collection name. Maybe this has something to do with syncing to the eBook Library, I don't know.

Sony's reasoning, I'm assuming, is that someone using the device would also be using the eBook Library. But we, and they too, know that this isn't always the case since many are using Calibre.

Sorry for the misunderstanding,

WDE.
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Old 03-20-2009, 09:18 PM   #7
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No worries WDE - didn't think it was argumentative. Figured we weren't on the "same page" - so to speak.

From looking at the XML files - it looks like Sony is still figuring out how to go from a standard table database, to an XML based structure (it does take some getting used to). Reminds me of the iTunes library XML prior to version 7.

Hopefully they'll clean it up in due time.

Code:
I would do something roughly like this (some fields may have been omitted for space concerns):

<books>
    <book>
        <id>##</id>
        <title>20,000 Leagues Under the See</title>
        <author>Jules Vern</author>
        <author_sort>Vern,Jules</author_sort>
        <publisher>######</publisher>
        <pub_date>####/##/##</pub_date>
        <current_page>#####</current_page>
        <font_size>###</font_size>
        <cover>####</cover>
    </book>
</books>
<collections>
    <collection>
        <id>##</id>
        <title>####</title>
        <order_by>####</order_by>
        <books>##,##,##,##,##</books>
    <collection>
</collections>
<bookmarks>
    <bookmark>
        <id>##</id>
        <date>####/##/##</date>
        <content>####</content>
        ...there a lot of fields for this section...
    </bookmark>
</bookmarks>
Each wrapper would be a "table." Each element would be a "column." (If thinking of it like a normal SQL database.)

Could be three separate XML files; or, I would probably go with 2: (1) for books and bookmarks, (2) for collections. Then, if the "books" tag in the collections.xml file is empty - delete the collection automatically. Or, notify the user on the home screen they have an empty collection: Delete y/n?

Again, just a thought.

But, maybe there is a logical explanation for why there are: 2 XML files in the cache folder; 1 for every book a user has opened, at least once, in the layout folder; and, 2 more in the sync folder.

Hopefully, the ability to remove a collection will be coming down the pipe. (Would also enjoy the ability to add a book to a collection while reading it.)

Cheers,
J

ps. If these same XML layouts are then used with the Sony sync software - it could be detected when there are more books in the "playlist" than on the reader - and automatic syncing could be instantiated.

Last edited by jbruce; 03-20-2009 at 10:00 PM. Reason: added ps + edit xml
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Old 03-21-2009, 09:35 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wetdogeared View Post
I agree, that once you delete all of the books in a collection you would think that the collection would be gone, or at least have the ability to delete the collection name.
The option to delete the collection would have been nice, but as a software developer, I can see why they didn't auto-delete it. The reasoning would have been that either way, someone would have expected the other option and it would have been judged to be less 'annoying' to have it left there than to have it deleted unexpectedly!
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Old 03-21-2009, 10:47 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbruce View Post
Thank you kindly Kovid.

Wonder if this should be natural behavior (or, at least an option) on the device? delete collection; wherein the books would be deleted as well. Moreover, wondering why the collection remains when it's empty?

Might have to send an email to Sony.

Cheers,
Josh
A collection is basically a "virtual folder". If you had a folder on your PC, would you expect it to automatically disappear when you deleted the files from it?
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Old 03-21-2009, 01:23 PM   #10
jbruce
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The reasoning would have been that either way, someone would have expected the other option
I suppose, as a web developer and designer, I would say having a "link" that appears on a page, which leads to an empty or "under construction" page - is far more "unexpected," and more inelegant than not having the link, yeah?

Quote:
A collection is basically a "virtual folder".
I don't think the analogy is fitting.

In this case, we have a data-set stored in XML which points to and describes individual files - much like MP3 players (and SQL databases used in CMS utilities).

As such, Book = Track; Author = Artist; Collection = Album. If I delete all the tracks from Bat Out of Hell - I would not expect the MP3 player or Computer Software to continue to reference the album.

Alternatively, if we look at collections as playlists, they can be empty on the Computer Software. However, if the playlist is empty on the device - it isn't displayed as a playlist (at least not on the iPod). And, for good reason, the metadata won't take us to anywhere of experiential value to the purpose of listening to music (or, in our case, reading).

J
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Old 06-15-2010, 11:11 PM   #11
NewbieNancy
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Deleting Collection - Need Help

Recently reloaded Reader Library software onto my laptop (after torturous process after upgrading software which effectively disabled it...) Plugged in Touch Reader and PC Library didn't recognize Collections I had on my Reader, made with last software version. So I have two collections on Reader, none on laptop. I try copying the Collections back up to the PC Library carefully using the same file name. Yes they copy, but at next sync, the PC software recreates two new Collections back onto Reader, so now I have 4 Collections on the Reader (two each of the same name) and two on the PC. I try deleting the 'old' collections - no can do. I can't delete the original collections on Reader to start the whole process again because the software doesn't recognize that they were created on the same PC because of the new software. It appears I will have 2 extra 'old' Collections sitting on my Reader until I smash it against the wall, and buy an iPad.
Does anyone know how to delete Collections that are on a Reader, and that the PC thinks were put there with a different laptop?
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