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Old 03-01-2009, 06:06 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Moejoe View Post
So what you're saying is that I should just accept DRM because it doesn't come into play for the average user? Why would I do that? I don't want DRM on anything I purchase and I won't accept it. Not on music, films or anything else.

Further to that point, are you really insisting that because ePub can be converted to other formats it shouldn't be adopted? That makes no sense at all. It's the standard, it's easy to create, it's flexible and it looks good, there's plenty of reasons it should be adopted.

As to the Sony, I don't own one, I'm waiting to buy a device that isn't encumbered with lock-ins to particular stores or needs DRM to be in any way useable.
thats gonna be close to 5-10 years then.

Epub is very Processor Intencive and slow, its made to be converted, and the way the kindle is set up, you can have an epub book and read it on a kindle. It flexability is exactly what makes it convertable to a format that can be read anywhere
Epubs are not easy to create, they look like crap unless you hand code them.


the Kindle is more Open than an Ipod is today even, and Ipods sells like hot cakes. Ipods File systems are still Locked down, you still need their propritary software to use it, and only recently did they pull DRM from their Labels, and that was only by Strong Arming the Music Industry after they took them over. Amazon cannot strong arm publishers yet, and for the moment they want their kindle store locked down and Proprietary, they are simply the best, but the market is still small, they want to sell their devices with their library, grow the market out, and then take over fully, they plan on opening their library soon to Cell Phones, and when they do, I suspect they will start offering DRM free books too.
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Old 03-01-2009, 06:08 PM   #17
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Quote:

a Sony Device is more, "locked down" than the kindle is.
I dont follow the logic on this? My sony can read any format I want, as long as I convert it to LRF/txt/doc/pdf/epub...

I think it has a better file selection than the Kindle (mobi or bust!)

The only lock in on the Reader is that you have to connect it to a computer.
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Old 03-01-2009, 06:10 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by jaxx6166 View Post
I dont follow the logic on this? My sony can read any format I want, as long as I convert it to LRF/txt/doc/pdf/epub...

I think it has a better file selection than the Kindle (mobi or bust!)

The only lock in on the Reader is that you have to connect it to a computer.
Please click the Kindle Myths and Partial Truths link in my sig. Any of the major ebook file formats except .lrx can be converted for use on the Kindle.
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Old 03-01-2009, 06:20 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Andybaby View Post
thats gonna be close to 5-10 years then.

Epub is very Processor Intencive and slow, its made to be converted, and the way the kindle is set up, you can have an epub book and read it on a kindle. It flexability is exactly what makes it convertable to a format that can be read anywhere
Epubs are not easy to create, they look like crap unless you hand code them.


the Kindle is more Open than an Ipod is today even, and Ipods sells like hot cakes. Ipods File systems are still Locked down, you still need their propritary software to use it, and only recently did they pull DRM from their Labels, and that was only by Strong Arming the Music Industry after they took them over. Amazon cannot strong arm publishers yet, and for the moment they want their kindle store locked down and Proprietary, they are simply the best, but the market is still small, they want to sell their devices with their library, grow the market out, and then take over fully, they plan on opening their library soon to Cell Phones, and when they do, I suspect they will start offering DRM free books too.
5-10 years? Well maybe I'm a lot more hopeful, and in the interim there's pleny of Creative Commons and public domain books to keep me reading on a swathe of devices that are about to be launched in the near future. Bonus is that I get to support new writer's and new methods of publishing.

I do own an iTouch I use for reading at the moment, and you're right, it's absolutely abysmal when it comes to any kind of standards. It was a wrong purchase, made because of monetary restraint and a cheap offer. I wish I hadn't done it now and just held out a little longer and put that money towards one of the new breed of readers about to be released.

As to ePub being processor intensive, I honestly haven't noticed that at all, not on the iTouch I've been using to read, or on my computer. And creating is getting easier by the day, eCub for one allows you to do it all without any hand-coding (although I prefer the hand-coding route myself, which is about as hard as creating a web-page).

I hope your predictions about DRM free books come true, and that's all I want. Fair priced, DRM-free, standards compliant books available in my country from Amazon without ridiculous agreements wherein I may lose my whole library on their whims. I don't see why I should buy into anything that doesn't satisfy my needs (I already did that with the iTouch and I won't be doing it again).
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Old 03-01-2009, 07:34 PM   #20
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Maybe my head has been buried in the sand, but this is the first I've heard of Amazon pushing DRM, I thought the publishers demanded it usually. DRM is just a pain in the ass for legitimate book buyers
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Old 03-01-2009, 09:03 PM   #21
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Is it just Amazon? In this case Amazon/Mobi would be the distributor. I know some of the ebook only pub's will sell you their books directly without DRM, but for stores like Fictionwise they use someone like Lightning Source (Ingram) as a distributor and those same books have DRM. I can't see the publisher choosing to add the DRM since they sell it without directly. Maybe this is something the big distributors are helping to push.
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Old 03-01-2009, 09:13 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andybaby View Post
the Kindle is more Open than an Ipod is today even, and Ipods sells like hot cakes. Ipods File systems are still Locked down, you still need their propritary software to use it, and only recently did they pull DRM from their Labels, and that was only by Strong Arming the Music Industry after they took them over. Amazon cannot strong arm publishers yet, and for the moment they want their kindle store locked down and Proprietary, they are simply the best, but the market is still small, they want to sell their devices with their library, grow the market out, and then take over fully, they plan on opening their library soon to Cell Phones, and when they do, I suspect they will start offering DRM free books too.
Amazon is strong arming publishers to INCLUDE DRM. When a publisher wants to publish DRM free in Mobipocket, Amazon say no you HAVE to have the DRM.
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Old 03-01-2009, 09:16 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by daffy4u View Post
Please click the Kindle Myths and Partial Truths link in my sig. Any of the major ebook file formats except .lrx can be converted for use on the Kindle.
I think most can be converted to work with the Kindle.

PDF with heavy formatting/graphics/tables/columns are going to be way too much of a mess when converted to any other format unless you hand fix it after the conversion. Also ePub can be made with heavy formatting as well which may or may not be all that easy to convert. Can't say. Never tried. But most eBooks will convert fine or ok enough.
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Old 03-02-2009, 02:25 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Moejoe View Post
That's it. I've had enough of Amazon. From the ridiculous geographic isolationism of the Swindle, to this absolutely disgraceful insistence on DRM when a small publisher doesn't want it, they do nothing but annoy and disturb me.
It's their store; they can impose whatever conditions they wish.

Nobody is forcing this publisher to sell their books via the Amazon bookstore.
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Old 03-02-2009, 11:44 AM   #25
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It's their store; they can impose whatever conditions they wish.

Nobody is forcing this publisher to sell their books via the Amazon bookstore.
Absolutely true.

However, Bezos has stated that Amazon is DRM-agnostic and that the choice is up to the publishers. Their actions say otherwise, and that doesn't sit well with me.
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Old 03-02-2009, 12:16 PM   #26
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So is Bezos giving us the royal run around? Is he saying it's up to the publishers and then forcing DRM?
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Old 03-02-2009, 12:18 PM   #27
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Something about this sounds fishy to me. I suspect we're not hearing the whole story. There's certainly no problem with selling books in the Mobi store which don't have DRM - I know people who are doing precisely that.
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Old 03-02-2009, 12:19 PM   #28
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Something about this sounds fishy to me. I suspect we're not hearing the whole story.
Well regardless of Bezos' position on DRM, Mobipocket is forcing DRM on publishers and Bezos/Amazon owns Mobipocket. So basically, it is Bezos forcing the DRM.
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Old 03-02-2009, 12:22 PM   #29
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Well regardless of Bezos' position on DRM, Mobipocket is forcing DRM on publishers and Bezos/Amazon owns Mobipocket. So basically, it is Bezos forcing the DRM.
But I know for a fact, Jon, that you can sell books in the Mobi store which don't have DRM.
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Old 03-02-2009, 12:24 PM   #30
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But I know for a fact, Jon, that you can sell books in the Mobi store which don't have DRM.
But will Mobi distribute them as well (to FW, BoB, etc.) or only sell them in their store?
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