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Old 02-27-2009, 01:14 AM   #1
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Exclamation Limits bookdesigner or LRF?

When assembling and producing a new book,I come to think I've reached the maximum of Book Designer's, or the LRF capabilities/capacity..

For a while now I'm converting bibles using the 'bible framework' as base frame (posted here).

I previously thought I had reached a maximum, as some errors started to appear when converting large files from .doc format to .lrf.

Later on I discovered if I created my ebook as a basical HTML, I could take bookdesigner even further.
Bibles posed no trouble with their near to 1000 chapters (bookmarks), and 3000 href's (hyperlinks) per file.

Within that frame I think I have reached a limit here today!

As I was creating a 'bible commentary',using the same framework as a regular bible, I found I could no longer get past Proverbs 30 with this edition.
The text after this would simply be cut off; not encoded,as if the book ended there.
Matthew Henry's complete bible commentary edition is rather.. VERY large in size.
Here are some numbers to give you an idea:


-After some pruning, the source (HTML page)could be fit in a 21,6MB uncompressed HTML.
-The amount of characters within the source html where about 22,7 million characters, and about 15 million characters from beginning to Proverbs 30.
-compressing that file using Winrar's best compression, resulted in a 4,32 MB file,or 19% of it's original size. (compare this to the King James Version Bible, which takes about 3,3MB in size uncompressed,or the Old testament is 600kb Compressed).
-A chapter of a book (like eg: Genesis 1) in the commentary took on average 30 sony reader pages of text @ 8 pt as commentary to that chapter, and about 1 full display of text per verse.
-The resulting .lrf created from the source HTML (including it's 33kb cover.jpg) was around: 10,5MB in size (all the way from Genesis to Proverbs 30, or about 70% of the total size was done).
-The amount of pages on 9pt encoded .lrf file equaled about 9952 pages on the Sony Reader (70% of the book got encoded).
-The amount of pages on 8pt encoded .lrf file equaled 7500 pages straight on the Sony Reader(70% of the book got encoded)!
-The encodingtime on a 1,66Ghz Core2Duo took about 35-45 minutes (to convert from HTML to LRF)


Am I the first who hit Bookdesigner or lrf limitations?

Anyways, if anyone knows a solution to this, you are more then welcome if you could help me out!


For those interested in the book, I'm working on getting it uploaded soon!
At the moment I finished the Old Testament commentary, by chopping it in 2 pieces.
If there's any fix to this limitation I might consider uploading the OT commentary in one piece, but I don't know if there'll be a solution any soon or not...

Perhaps this info is or was useful to some who plan on making large books available on the reader.
I don't know where the limitation hits in, but if you get close to any of the numbers mentioned above, you might want to test out if it can be encoded or not!

Greetz!

Last edited by ProDigit; 02-27-2009 at 01:23 AM.
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Old 02-27-2009, 02:39 AM   #2
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I've never hit any "hard limits" as you may have done, but I've certainly hit the limits of what's practical to work with on many occasions. I'd suggest that you split the book into the appropriate number of "volumes", as I've done for many of my omnibus editions. I find that once you get beyond a certain size (about 2000 pages, with the window size I work with in BD) it gets very slow and takes forever to build the book.
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Old 02-27-2009, 12:17 PM   #3
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Yeah, building the book, and refreshing the fontsize on the reader certainly take a long time. But that's only once.
After that the book will be automatically loaded in the right fontsize, and once created, I generally don't need much of re-creating it.
I chopped the book in 3 pieces. About 6Mb per .lrf.
A big chunk, but it works...
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Old 02-27-2009, 02:13 PM   #4
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It sounds like you have a very ambitious project on your hands ProDigit!!

Just wanted to comment that I've had problems with the King James Version of the bible that I downloaded from this site (the lrf version) on my reader. If I leave the font size in small, it works without a problem. But when I try increasing the font size, I often get odd behavior from my 505. The device will sometimes freeze--sometimes I can get it to go to other books, but won't be able to change pages in the bible. I'm assuming this is due to the size of the file, but I'm not sure.

I've tried downloading it again, and re-copying it over to my reader. It will work again if I don't change the font from small, but problems begin again if I try to increase the size.

(My husband also has the same version of the bible on his 700 and doesn't have any problems with changing the font size.)

I'm just mentioning this because it might be something else you should look out for when testing your new bible on your 505.

BTW, I'm anxious to see your finished product! Thanks for your hard work!

dordale
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Old 02-27-2009, 02:16 PM   #5
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dordale, did you use eBook Library to transfer the bible to your 505? If not, then you are having the 505 do the work of paginating when you change font sizes. But if you use eBook Library, your computer does it for you and the bible should work fine.
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Old 02-27-2009, 08:01 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dordale View Post
It sounds like you have a very ambitious project on your hands ProDigit!!

Just wanted to comment that I've had problems with the King James Version of the bible that I downloaded from this site (the lrf version) on my reader. If I leave the font size in small, it works without a problem. But when I try increasing the font size, I often get odd behavior from my 505. The device will sometimes freeze--sometimes I can get it to go to other books, but won't be able to change pages in the bible. I'm assuming this is due to the size of the file, but I'm not sure.

I've tried downloading it again, and re-copying it over to my reader. It will work again if I don't change the font from small, but problems begin again if I try to increase the size.

(My husband also has the same version of the bible on his 700 and doesn't have any problems with changing the font size.)

I'm just mentioning this because it might be something else you should look out for when testing your new bible on your 505.

BTW, I'm anxious to see your finished product! Thanks for your hard work!

dordale
Yes,resizing the text does take a lot of the reader's CPU.
The Sony reader PRS-505 is able to handle the bible just fine.
I'd recommend you to charge the battery of the reader via an AC adaptor.
Then go to the first page of the bible, and increase text size.
With the AC plugged in, I'm more confident that the battery won't run dry; and also the CPU gets enough voltage. It'll work a bit faster.
It could take upto 15 minutes on a large version for the first time.
Just let it load, and once it finishes, (normally) the book will automatically be opened the next time in the larger font size.
Changing fontsize and indexing could sometimes request a reboot of the Sony, to clear memory successfully.
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Old 02-27-2009, 08:18 PM   #7
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Quote:
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dordale, did you use eBook Library to transfer the bible to your 505? If not, then you are having the 505 do the work of paginating when you change font sizes. But if you use eBook Library, your computer does it for you and the bible should work fine.
Jon--I did use the Sony software to transfer the Bible over--each and every time. I've probably transferred it over about 10-15 times now. Each time I decide to try and re-size the fonts on my Sony, I end up having to delete it and re-transfer it. (I can't get the Bible back to the small fonts unless I delete and re-transfer.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ProDigit View Post
Yes,resizing the text does take a lot of the reader's CPU.
The Sony reader PRS-505 is able to handle the bible just fine.
I'd recommend you to charge the battery of the reader via an AC adaptor.
Then go to the first page of the bible, and increase text size.
With the AC plugged in, I'm more confident that the battery won't run dry; and also the CPU gets enough voltage. It'll work a bit faster.
It could take upto 15 minutes on a large version for the first time.
Just let it load, and once it finishes, (normally) the book will automatically be opened the next time in the larger font size.
Changing fontsize and indexing could sometimes request a reboot of the Sony, to clear memory successfully.
ProDigit--One thing I haven't tried is re-sizing the bible when it's plugged in via AC. I'll try that and just let it sit for awhile. I don't think I should have to do this because as I mentioned above, I've loaded the Bible using the Sony Software which means that all of the pagination information should already be provided to the 505.

Honestly, I don't need my Bible to be any larger than the small font, but when I get something that's not working quite right it gnaws at me until I figure it out.

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Old 02-27-2009, 08:22 PM   #8
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I have to correct my previous post.
I found out why the book did not finish encoding. There was an unrecognized HTML code in my document, and for some reason Bookdesigner canceled encoding the rest of the book.

I've corrected the issue, and without problems encoded a 11,6MB lrf file without error.
you can find it here

Perhaps I was too soon to boast hitting the limit..
/Me goes off to the library to find an even larger book!

Last edited by ProDigit; 02-27-2009 at 08:30 PM.
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Old 02-27-2009, 08:27 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dordale View Post
ProDigit--One thing I haven't tried is re-sizing the bible when it's plugged in via AC. I'll try that and just let it sit for awhile. I don't think I should have to do this because as I mentioned above, I've loaded the Bible using the Sony Software which means that all of the pagination information should already be provided to the 505.

Honestly, I don't need my Bible to be any larger than the small font, but when I get something that's not working quite right it gnaws at me until I figure it out.

dordale
Which version of the Bible you have? (version eg: KJV/ASV/...? and where did you download it?)

I have plans on releasing more bible versions in the future, but been held back due to work related issues.

Besides the version, have you tried to see if you'd like one of my encoded versions? I don't really get a lot of feedback...

Here's the King James version
And the Young's Literal Translation
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Old 02-28-2009, 02:10 PM   #10
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Prodigit--

I got my copy of the Bible (King James Version) from Mobiread:

http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11987

Again, it works great, unless I try to change the font size. The file really isn't that big (only 1.6 mb) so I don't know what's going on with my reader.

A few months ago, I tried various things to make it work with a larger font size but so far no go. As I said earlier it isn't really a big deal--just something that bugs me now.

If I get some time today, I'll try your suggestion of switching sizes when it's hooked up to AC and report back here.

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Old 02-28-2009, 02:57 PM   #11
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I'm admittedly a bit new to the nuances between formats, but if you're using LRF, I'd have to assume you're targeting the Sony readers with that file. Have you tried using ePub instead? I know the two have their pros and cons, but if length is a critical issue, it might be worth exploring whether or not ePub lets you have longer books.

Another plus is that it doesn't take time to format the book when you open it up or change fonts.
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Old 02-28-2009, 07:46 PM   #12
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The problem is that I currently have no epub software to create books from.
Otherwise I'd love to give it a try!
Bookdesigner is the only software I know that can save to a sony readable format, where I can edit nearly everything before encoding.
I'm a little skeptic about calibre, which does not allow you to alter the text before encoding.
I think I should look at Calibre one of these days. If I know how to add pagebreaks, titles, bookmarks and hyperlinks, I might directly encode from HTML to lrf using Calibre.
But so far LRF has not been a limit, apart from the larger conversion time.

I'm also glad that I saw the error. Basically a word was written between '<' and '>' brackets, which in HTML coding could be a HTML command.
Probably the only limitation to encoding in bookdesigner. (you can't have words in between brackets like <this>).
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Old 02-28-2009, 07:51 PM   #13
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Quote:
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The problem is that I currently have no epub software to create books from.
Otherwise I'd love to give it a try!
have you taken a look at eScape ? or ecub ? there is also feedbooks.com if you don't mind an online interface (you can save your work between sessions, and ask for a previsualisation to get the final book even without publishing it online if you don't want to).

take a look in the epub forum for plenty of tips and information. there are more and more epub creation tools emerging ; even some being created by MobileRead members !
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Old 02-28-2009, 08:16 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by dordale View Post
Prodigit--

I got my copy of the Bible (King James Version) from Mobiread:

http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11987

Again, it works great, unless I try to change the font size. The file really isn't that big (only 1.6 mb) so I don't know what's going on with my reader.

A few months ago, I tried various things to make it work with a larger font size but so far no go. As I said earlier it isn't really a big deal--just something that bugs me now.

If I get some time today, I'll try your suggestion of switching sizes when it's hooked up to AC and report back here.

dordale
I tried the same file as you mentioned there. zooming to different fontsizes works fine with me.

Here's what I did:
0- Delete the book from the internal memory of the Sony reader, disconnect the cable (Sony reader will refresh it's content table).
1- I downloaded the file, and saved it to my HD.
2- I went to the file in explorer, and copied it to "e:\database\media\books\" in explorer. No Sony program needed. ("e:\" stands for the drive of my Reader.)
3- I check my diskspace (the Sony Reader needs at least 5-10MB of free diskspace.
4- go to the book, open it to page 1.
5- set the fontsize
setting the fontsize for the first time on a book with the reader can take up some time, but once it has been successfully done, changing fontsize goes about as fast as flipping a page (less then 1sec).


I told you about the AC, because in some cases when the battery is near empty, you'll get errors, as well as when there's no sufficient freespace available on the device's internal memory.

If you follow the same steps as me above,you should get the same results, unless there's a difference between your Sony reader and mine (Silver PRS-505).
So I'd suggest not using Sony software.

The version you use should not balast your reader.
If you want to, check out one of my versions of the KJV, which has hyperlinks to chapters, that will allow you to faster find books and chapters in the bible. The version you use needs a lot of guesswork as to where an exact verse can be found.
The internal version should be the same (King James Version).

So far I haven't gotten any feedback yet, so the more users use it, the more feedback I get, and hopefully can use in newer versions!

Last edited by ProDigit; 02-28-2009 at 08:19 PM.
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Old 02-28-2009, 08:19 PM   #15
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The problem is that I currently have no epub software to create books from.
Otherwise I'd love to give it a try!
Hm. The ePub format looks pretty, well, how to say it.. open-standardsy?

As far as I can see, it's basically an XML file with metadata, and then just one or more HTML files and images (if any). Zipped for compression.

To see if it might even be worth your time to investigate epub, in regards to max-length and performance, you might want to grab a small epub book from somewhere, rename the extension from .epub to .zip, then unzip it, replace the HTML file in there with yours.. Then zip it back up and see if it will work?

I haven't tried that yet, but I will soon. I will most likely be leaning towards epub for any stuff that I make. One nagging limitation I read about--and seems to be true from what I've seen so far--you can't fully justify text. Only left (and presumably center or right) justification is available.

I just did a cursory google search on that, and it sounds like you can specify justified text, but since the epub specification considers it optional, it appears most things (including the sony reader) ignores it. Hopefully that will change soon and they'll release a firmware.

edit: just found this news which hopefully means we will get justification soon?
http://blog.feedbooks.com/?cat=19

IMO the blogger's concerns about it being a user setting have no merit. LRF and other formats seem to treat justification as a publisher setting, not a user setting. I'm not saying a user override would be bad, but what next? change the font face? color? make it all italics?

Last edited by sigma8; 02-28-2009 at 08:29 PM.
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