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Old 02-28-2009, 03:09 PM   #1
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How To Turn Customers Into Pirates

Interesting article.

http://torrentfreak.com/how-to-turn-...irates-090228/

I think all this applies to ebook customers also.

BOb
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Old 02-28-2009, 03:10 PM   #2
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Interesting article.

http://torrentfreak.com/how-to-turn-...irates-090228/

I think all this applies to ebook customers also.

BOb

Just read this a few minutes ago. Good article, and it repeats a lot of what has already been said about DRM but gives it a more human face.
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Old 02-28-2009, 03:21 PM   #3
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yep. i think one of the biggest problems with illegal filesharing is that customers are shown that they are considered indiscriminately as thieves and criminals by the very industries their purchases support, and they feel so disgusted by this treatment and the hoops they have to jump through to use the media they have legitimately purchased, that ultimately i suspect many of them turn to illegal downloads at least partly out of disillusionment and revolt.
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Old 02-28-2009, 03:27 PM   #4
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yep. i think one of the biggest problems with illegal filesharing is that customers are shown that they are considered indiscriminately as thieves and criminals by the very industries their purchases support, and they feel so disgusted by this treatment and the hoops they have to jump through to use the media they have legitimately purchased, that ultimately i suspect many of them turn to illegal downloads at least partly out of disillusionment and revolt.
Exactly, and not only that, the convenience. When a pirated version is much easier to obtain, use and enjoy than an official version, who wins out in the end? You can't stop filesharing, that horse has left the stable by now, but you could actually lure customers back by equalling the pirates at their own game and not treating paying customers as pre-emptive thieves.
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Old 02-28-2009, 03:42 PM   #5
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Exactly, and not only that, the convenience. When a pirated version is much easier to obtain, use and enjoy than an official version, who wins out in the end? You can't stop filesharing, that horse has left the stable by now, but you could actually lure customers back by equalling the pirates at their own game and not treating paying customers as pre-emptive thieves.
yes, exactly !! i believe (based on what people say about their own habits) that most people will prefer to buy a legitimate copy of a book (or music, or software, or...) rather than search for a pirated one, provided it is easy to find and obtain, and priced reasonably. honest people start to turn to other means of finding content that interests them when the legitimate versions either don't exist at all (Harry Potter) or getting it / using it becomes so complicated (and sometimes impossible) that they are effectively discouraged from doing the right thing. it's ironic how supposed "anti-pirate" measures are in fact more often than not encouragement to become a pirate.
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Old 02-28-2009, 04:01 PM   #6
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As far as music is concerned, this lesson is slowly penetrating, with iTunes announcement of upgrading their whole library to iTunes Plus - removing the DRM and providing the files at much higher bitrate/quality ...

Ebooks are repeating this cycle but we are still back at the very early stages - the publishers are still frantically opposed to removing DRM, we have multiple conflicting formats (similar to the early days of Real vs MP3 vs Ogg vs AAC vs Quicktime vs ...)

And other than remarkable exceptions like Tor and Baen, very few publishers are bothering to learn from past examples. It's still gonna be a long, hard haul before the ebook situation is anywhere close to the current music situation ...
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Old 02-28-2009, 04:12 PM   #7
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the problem is also complicated by the authors ; i recently learned that in france, the majority of the major editors who are getting into digital publishing are already convinced that drm should be dropped. but some of their authors are still quite panicked at the thought of all those nasty pirates stealing the bread out of their mouths. so they insist on drm. so the real struggle now is to educate all the authors, as well as the publishers. i don't know how we can help do this, maybe by writing to them, maybe by inviting them to participate on this forum, where they can see for themselves that drm is pointless and only causes trouble for legitimate customers...
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Old 02-28-2009, 04:14 PM   #8
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the problem is also complicated by the authors ; i recently learned that in france, the majority of the major editors who are getting into digital publishing are already convinced that drm should be dropped. but some of their authors are still quite panicked at the thought of all those nasty pirates stealing the bread out of their mouths. so they insist on drm..
There seems like a no brainer fix to this for me. The publishers are really in the drivers seat here. Tell the authors if they don't want DRM free ebooks there book will not be an ebook. Customers will just have to choose another book.

BOb
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Old 02-28-2009, 04:21 PM   #9
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the problem is also complicated by the authors ; i recently learned that in france, the majority of the major editors who are getting into digital publishing are already convinced that drm should be dropped. but some of their authors are still quite panicked at the thought of all those nasty pirates stealing the bread out of their mouths. so they insist on drm. so the real struggle now is to educate all the authors, as well as the publishers. i don't know how we can help do this, maybe by writing to them, maybe by inviting them to participate on this forum, where they can see for themselves that drm is pointless and only causes trouble for legitimate customers...
Such a sad state of affairs when the people in the creative community are the ones holding back on what is, arguably, the greatest shift in the production of art to occur in the last century The playing field is being levelled day by day and yet there are still those who cling onto the past.
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Old 02-28-2009, 04:31 PM   #10
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There seems like a no brainer fix to this for me. The publishers are really in the drivers seat here. Tell the authors if they don't want DRM free ebooks there book will not be an ebook. Customers will just have to choose another book.

BOb
i agree, that seems pretty easy. but the problem is, what if the majority say, "okay, no ebooks then ! fine with us !" ? i WANT my favorite authors to be published in ebooks !! and to be honest, if this means they will only accept to be published with drm, i will buy a drm copy and remove the drm, if it's a book i want enough. i'd rather have the book and take that little bit of extra trouble (it's not *that* much extra trouble, anyway, particularly since french publishers are overwhelmingly choosing to publish in epub format, and adobe epub drm is now really easy to remove, and epub is my format of choice anyway).
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Such a sad state of affairs when the people in the creative community are the ones holding back on what is, arguably, the greatest shift in the production of art to occur in the last century The playing field is being levelled day by day and yet there are still those who cling onto the past.
oh, i so, so agree !!! i don't know what percentage of authors are clinging to drm (not all of them ; some even publish under cc licences, i know) but it's really a shame they are still stuck in this mindset.

especially because look at JK Rowling, arguably the most high-profile anti-ebook author : she refused to allow *any* ebook editions of her works, to stick it to those nasty pirates. yep. can't find *any* harry potter ebooks...

i do think they will eventually be convinced, but there are so many of them, if you have to go one by one who knows how long that will take. that's why i am wondering if we should start writing to our favorite authors, just to ask how they feel about the question (ebooks in general, and drm as well), and perhaps to point them in the direction of some convincing articles if they write back saying "pirates !! arg !!!"

some of my favorite authors are dead, so i hope nobody will be claiming that their ebooks have drm "because the author insisted."
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Old 02-28-2009, 04:34 PM   #11
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yep. i think one of the biggest problems with illegal filesharing is that customers are shown that they are considered indiscriminately as thieves and criminals by the very industries their purchases support, and they feel so disgusted by this treatment and the hoops they have to jump through to use the media they have legitimately purchased, that ultimately i suspect many of them turn to illegal downloads at least partly out of disillusionment and revolt.
I've had a similar experience with software. I purchased an end-of-day stock charting program ($1005 AUD) only to find that every time I used it, I needed to be connected to the internet so it could verify I was a legitimate user.

Searching the internet for a work-around, I happened upon a crack for the program. After applying this crack to my legitimate program, I found I no longer needed to connect to the internet to use it!

So....am I now a legitimate user or a pirate?
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Old 02-28-2009, 04:36 PM   #12
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I've had a similar experience with software. I purchased an end-of-day stock charting program ($1005 AUD) only to find that every time I used it, I needed to be connected to the internet so it could verify I was a legitimate user.

Searching the internet for a work-around, I happened upon a crack for the program. After applying this crack to my legitimate program, I found I no longer needed to connect to the internet to use it!

So....am I now a legitimate user or a pirate?
ridiculous. how can they think those verification systems are a good idea ????
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Old 02-28-2009, 04:37 PM   #13
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i agree, that seems pretty easy. but the problem is, what if the majority say, "okay, no ebooks then ! fine with us !" ? i WANT my favorite authors to be published in ebooks !! and to be honest, if this means they will only accept to be published with drm, i will buy a drm copy and remove the drm, if it's a book i want enough. i'd rather have the book and take that little bit of extra trouble (it's not *that* much extra trouble, anyway, particularly since french publishers are overwhelmingly choosing to publish in epub format, and adobe epub drm is now really easy to remove, and epub is my format of choice anyway).

oh, i so, so agree !!! i don't know what percentage of authors are clinging to drm (not all of them ; some even publish under cc licences, i know) but it's really a shame they are still stuck in this mindset.

especially because look at JK Rowling, arguably the most high-profile anti-ebook author : she refused to allow *any* ebook editions of her works, to stick it to those nasty pirates. yep. can't find *any* harry potter ebooks...

i do think they will eventually be convinced, but there are so many of them, if you have to go one by one who knows how long that will take. that's why i am wondering if we should start writing to our favorite authors, just to ask how they feel about the question (ebooks in general, and drm as well), and perhaps to point them in the direction of some convincing articles if they write back saying "pirates !! arg !!!"

some of my favorite authors are dead, so i hope nobody will be claiming that their ebooks have drm "because the author insisted."
Well I know how my favourite author feels, he's expressed it very clearly.
Quote:
“There is no future for e-books, because they are not books. E-books smell like burned fuel." -- Ray Bradbury
A shame that the author who so lovingly showed me the possibilities of the future would turn out to be such a luddite when it comes to ebooks.

It's probably the same for a lot of the 'A-List', and I don't think it's necessarily due to an anti-technology bent. These authors have made their money already, they're at the top of the pile from traditional book sales. They probably see e-books as cutting into their sales or being easily pirated and reducing sales.

Last edited by Moejoe; 02-28-2009 at 04:40 PM.
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Old 02-28-2009, 04:37 PM   #14
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i agree, that seems pretty easy. but the problem is, what if the majority say, "okay, no ebooks then ! fine with us !"
Yes, that will happen, at first. But, other authors will be hungry enough for all the readers they can get. Their books will sell and these no ebook authors will start to change there minds.

Also, if the authors are popular enough the publishers can show them that in fact there books are already pirated and out there on the darknet. So, not selling ebooks is just plain stupid decision. They have "made their customers pirates".

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Old 02-28-2009, 04:41 PM   #15
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Well I know how my favourite author feels, he's expressed it very clearly.

“There is no future for e-books, because they are not books. E-books smell like burned fuel." -- Ray Bradbury

A shame that the author who so lovingly showed me the possibilities of the future would turn out to be such a luddite when it comes to ebooks.

It's probably the same for a lot of the 'A-List', and I don't think it's necessarily due to an anti-technology bent. These authors have made their money already, they're at the top of the pile from traditional book sales. They probably see e-books as cutting into their sales or being easily pirated and reducing sales.
wow, i'm actually rather shocked that ray bradbury would have that opinion. what a shame. i suppose i expect science fiction authors to be a bit more enlightened and tech-friendly, although that's probably a silly generalisation (and i can think of other cases as well which prove me wrong on that point...).

you may have a point about the a-listers though ; perhaps less well-known authors see it as a chance for increased visibility and are more open to it. it's a rather blinkered viewpoint though. you should write to bradbury and explain to him how it *really* is. (so, are none of his books available as ebooks ? or does he tolerate them, in spite of his prejudice ?)
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