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Old 01-25-2009, 01:36 PM   #121
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I'm just curious but I wonder who (atheists or theists) would be more offended by an advert stating, "There probably is a god."

My gut feeling is that theists would be more offended but that's just my opinion.
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Old 01-25-2009, 01:38 PM   #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patricia View Post
It can be found here:
http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33607
The person in question did post rather intemperately in other threads too.
Intemperately?? Nah .... I post intemperately. That guy was a complete and total loon. To use the medical terminology, he was completely crackers.

Hmmm .... this would be a good time to use a slightly modified Dead Parrot approach in my description of that particular nut case.

Back on topic ... Personally, I think one of the things that bothered me was/is the title of the post. It states "Sony's Religious Intolerance" as if it were a fact rather than an opinion. Seriously, when I first read it, I expected to hear that they were only laying off Muslims or something. Now, that would be religious intolerance at a corporate level.

But, hey .... as long as we are discussing institutionalized idiocy, I recently sat through yet another Hollywood offering that included Buddhist characters spouting decidedly non-Buddhist beliefs. Let's face it -- companies, as institutions, are not the brightest stars in the intellectual firmament. For the most part, they make their money pandering to the lowest common denominator.

Oh jeeps .... I promised myself I was going to stay out of here today. I've got too much to do to play in here.
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Old 01-25-2009, 01:51 PM   #123
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... Personally, I think one of the things that bothered me was/is the title of the post. It states "Sony's Religious Intolerance" as if it were a fact rather than an opinion. Seriously, when I first read it, I expected to hear that they were only laying off Muslims or something. Now, that would be religious intolerance at a corporate level.

...
Naw, only is they were laying off Muslims just because they were Muslims. Otherwise (if they could prove it) it would just be a business policy.
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Old 01-25-2009, 02:06 PM   #124
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Fair enough! All of you are obviously "forum veterans" and I am not. I don't normally post anything on forums (only read as many people do) and I really and honestly only expected a few people's opinions in response.
Eh, anywhere you bring up something like religion or politics in a place that isn't made specifically for people of the same beliefs in those topics, large discussions/debates/craziness will ensue. There's that whole three things you don't bring up in polite company, but I can't remember the third...sex maybe? Anyway, there are just those topics that people tend to jump in on, wherever you post them, because they're topics people feel strongly about.

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My original point was only to have topic neutral books preloaded on the Reader
Are there really such things?
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Old 01-25-2009, 02:10 PM   #125
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Fair enough! All of you are obviously "forum veterans" and I am not. I don't normally post anything on forums (only read as many people do) and I really and honestly only expected a few people's opinions in response. I probably would not have brought up the topic had I thought so many people would have been upset by it. Lesson learned.
I think, if anything, the responses to the thread show that the forum is liberal-leaning.

BTW, I checked, and the two recommended books by Strobel are available at fictionwise, along with two of his other books. (crickets)
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Old 01-25-2009, 02:13 PM   #126
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1. Sony does not care that (according to numerous polls) that 90% of Americans believe in God. They are clearly interested in promoting their own agenda, regardless of the fact that it may insult 90% of their customers.

God and religion are two different things. Even a God believer knows that there are many men and religions that are just scams, false, a cancer to society. With so many different religions, sure they can't all be right, right? So even a believer should be cautious about religion and not be offended by anything that may go agains't it, if well argumented, of course. A true believer is also a wise person, a scholar in its field of belief. And to learn, we have to collect different opinions, right?

Besides all that, I don't think Sony should open a censoring department to prevent these kind of things. They could put an excerpt of the Bible. Sure it's a best seller, no?
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Old 01-25-2009, 02:25 PM   #127
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It is amusing to me that a few posters have felt "inspired" to buy Dawkins book after the post!
I admit I was one of them. The book has some interesting points, but it seems as bad as all pro-religion books I have encountered in trying to shove the author's point of view down the reader's throat. I just hope this preaching stops before I lose my strength to continue (I am at page 47 now).
[Yes, I am an atheist. I just hate it when someone tries to force me to a point of view, even if it is the point of view that I myself would take if I was left alone.]

Quote:
My original point was only to have topic neutral books preloaded on the Reader suitable for a diverse audience,
Let me be honest - I very much doubt there is a single book that would fit this criteria. No matter how innocent or mild a book is, there is sure to be someone who will find it offensive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MidknytOwl
There's that whole three things you don't bring up in polite company, but I can't remember the third...sex maybe?
Sex is something most people can agree on, when you compare it to religion and politics.
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Old 01-25-2009, 02:30 PM   #128
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Godwin? I betcha he never figured this into his equation!


I am the Snacker of Nations! Hear me and tremble! I will trample your crops and terrorize your livestock as I stride across the lands, wreaking havoc amongst your lolcats. Bow before my terrible glory and plead for mercy! No opinion counts except for my fearful edicts.

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Old 01-25-2009, 02:37 PM   #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DixieGal View Post
Godwin? I betcha he never figured this into his equation!


I am the Snacker of Nations! Hear me and tremble! I will trample your crops and terrorize your livestock as I stride across the lands, wreaking havoc amongst your lolcats. Bow before my terrible glory and plead for mercy! No opinion counts except for my fearful edicts.

Thats my DixieGal!
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Old 01-25-2009, 03:05 PM   #130
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Besides all that, I don't think Sony should open a censoring department to prevent these kind of things. They could put an excerpt of the Bible. Sure it's a best seller, no?
No ... the only book entitled "The Bible" that is on any of the best seller lists is a history of the Bible by Karen Armstrong.

The Bible itself hasn't been on a best seller list for a long time. Partly, I think, because it's freaking easy to get a free copy ... why would people buy one? And, the old illustrated family Bible has sort of gone the way of the Dodo. You know the ones .... with the gold leaf edges, and dozens of full page color illustrations by people like DaVinci.

I still have our family's Bible, which, I must admit, game me a good introduction to classical art.

I do love some of the old religious artwork. I was not impressed by the art in the Mormon temples I have been in (before they consecrated them ... of course). It's a large group of people, you would think there would be some talented artists in there somewhere, but if there are, they are not working on art for the temples.

Off track again, I know.
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Old 01-25-2009, 04:32 PM   #131
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Regarding Zelda's comments, the Left Behind series is not attacking a particular group,
Actually the Left Behind series is attacking anyone who does not believe in the Christian Rights skewed beliefs, in the fact that all those not "born again" are left behind!

People have a right to believe in what they want as long as your not impinging on someone else's beliefs. The Christian Right, as espoused in the Left Behind series, believes that their way is the only way and they will use political means to make sure others bend to their will (the Bush administration is a good example).
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Old 01-25-2009, 04:51 PM   #132
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Actually the Left Behind series is attacking anyone who does not believe in the Christian Rights skewed beliefs, in the fact that all those not "born again" are left behind!

People have a right to believe in what they want as long as your not impinging on someone else's beliefs. The Christian Right, as espoused in the Left Behind series, believes that their way is the only way and they will use political means to make sure others bend to their will (the Bush administration is a good example).

Oh please. Way to generalize and label the Christian right based on a fictional book series.
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Old 01-25-2009, 05:41 PM   #133
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Religious tangent; probably pointless

[QUOTE=DixieGal;334285] Even without faith, surely no one can deny that the Golden Rule and Ten Commandments are clear instructions for living a life of good morals.[\quote]

1) I have faith. It's just not faith in the same things you have faith in.
2) No, the Golden Rule is not a good instruction for a "life of good morals."

My neighbor likes rap & hip-hop music. He likes it a lot. He likes it very, very loud. He would love to have someone provide very loud rap music all day long for him to listen to. Should he provide the neighborhood with nice loud music for them all to enjoy, because that's what he'd like?

I like reading fanfic, especially very explicit fanfic, online. I love it when people give me links & recommendations to it. Should I send links & recommendations to explicit fanfic to everyone I know, because that's what I'd like them to do to me?

The 10 commandments are lacking several key elements of basic civil rights. Why is not making images of a deity I don't worship more morally important than not owning slaves, not committing rape?

Quote:
I work with Hindus, Muslims, and Jews. When they tell me that they ary praying for me, I appreciate it. And I know they appreciate being remembered in prayer by the Christians. I feel blessed to be a part of such a fine group of people.
Are you just as accepting of prayers in the name of Kali, Loki, Coyote, or Lucifer?

For myself, I do not like being prayed for by Christians, except for a tiny handful of specific people whom I trust to not attempt to convert me through their prayers. I don't want the attentions of the Christian god, a "jealous god," who kills children for the sins of their parents.

(And this has gotten very, very far from the ethics of including religious or anti-religious ebook excerpts on a Reader. But I very much do not like Christians assuming that their religious concepts are universal, nor that people of other religions are obligated to ignore their history.)
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Old 01-25-2009, 05:49 PM   #134
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For myself, I do not like being prayed for by Christians, except for a tiny handful of specific people whom I trust to not attempt to convert me through their prayers. I don't want the attentions of the Christian god ...
Now that has nevered bothered me at all. Either there is no God, in which case the prayers will be merely expressions of feeling. Or there is a God, in which case we are all likely to come to his attention sooner or later.

We are wandering away from the original point, aren't we?
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Old 01-25-2009, 05:49 PM   #135
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Hypocrisy?

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Now this book is not an unbiased or fair and balanced assessment of people of faith.
Unlike the holy books of the major religions which, without exception, contain a balanced assessment of 'faithless' people?

IMHO, atheists are usually more tolerant of religious people than the other way around. It is just fine writing of the eternal torture awaiting 'infidels' but writing back is a grave insult.

Btw, I am a declared Catholic but I believe that insulting someone's set of beliefs even if it includes a lack of faith is equally unacceptable as insulting someone's faith.

Now, msmith, it appears that you are insulted but, not having read the book in question, I cannot give my opinion if it was with a valid reason. However, I do know that with the world getting smaller every day the importance of tolerance is every day greater and greater. You have every right to be angered by an elbow kick if it happened in the desert. However, if it happened in a crowded elevator our little planet is turning into, maybe you should consider overlooking it.

Last edited by Mycropht; 01-25-2009 at 05:57 PM.
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