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Old 01-24-2009, 01:35 PM   #61
pdurrant
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Ah - an apatheist. :-)

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Psst…I'm not an atheist. I'm a polytheist if anything, but mostly could care less about the whole religion/spiritual thing.
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Old 01-24-2009, 01:36 PM   #62
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Ah - an apatheist. :-)
(me too actually.)
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Old 01-24-2009, 01:42 PM   #63
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Its not the opinion, and while its 'politely expressed' it shows GREAT intolerance for any other belief beside theirs.
Personally, and it's just my personal view , I don't see much intolerance at all in the OP's posts, e.g.:

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I just thought it was a poor choice to preload on the Reader IMHO. I certainly respect that others have differing opinions.
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Old 01-24-2009, 01:49 PM   #64
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Ricky' in da house!



What about those Witchcraft manuals written by Rawling?



I love that you are keeping it real!

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You mean Rowling?? Got 'em all!! Loved 'em all!! Although, I am no end of pissed off that they are not available for the Kindle.
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Old 01-24-2009, 01:51 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparrow View Post
Personally, and it's just my personal view , I don't see much intolerance at all in the OP's posts, e.g.:

Again, they make it perfectly clear they wouldn't have bought the Sony if they had known about the sample loaded, and they will not in the future buy books from Sony for the same reason, and they are accusing Sony of intolerance.

Not buying a device because of one sample?

Refusing to buy books in the future because of one sample?

Accusing the company of being committed to intolerance because of one sample?

I call that being intolerant of other beliefs. What do you call it?

Last edited by desertgrandma; 01-24-2009 at 01:52 PM. Reason: posted too soon
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Old 01-24-2009, 01:57 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by desertgrandma View Post
Again, they make it perfectly clear they wouldn't have bought the Sony if they had known about the sample loaded, and they will not in the future buy books from Sony for the same reason, and they are accusing Sony of intolerance.

Not buying a device because of one sample?

Refusing to buy books in the future because of one sample?

Accusing the company of being committed to intolerance because of one sample?

I call that being intolerant of other beliefs. What do you call it?
The thing that is a little funny about all of this is, well, Sony is a huge corporation. They have offices all over the damn planet. So the idea that Sony has some sort of agenda with regard to religion gives me the giggles.

As everyone knows, I'll do my level best to give people all sorts of reasons not to purchase Sony products (some of which probably don't have the all time best logical foundation), but accusing them of religious intolerance? That's even further out in left field than I'm willing to wander.
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Old 01-24-2009, 02:04 PM   #67
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Frankly, what I find surprising is the ridicule and vehemence with which many in this thread are commenting on the opinion of the original poster. Whether you agree with his statements or not, he has a right to voice his opinions without being made to feel foolish. I find it interesting how the word, "Intolerance" is used in regards to msmith when it can easily be used toward many of those posting an opposing view. Unfortunately, anytime someone presents themselves as a Christian, people jump to the conclusion that they are fanatical and intolerant when that is generally not the case.

For those who wonder how references to God can be included in much of our American government, the founding fathers were predominently believers whose families came to this country to worship freely in whatever way they chose. When our constitution was written, there was some discussion whether or not to include a reference to God. They chose to include it based on the fact that the majority of people in the colonies were believers. More importantly, the separation of church and state does not say that our government cannot make reference to a diety. It states that there cannot be any government sanctioned or sponsored religion.

As for promoting the book, people who are searching for something to justify their stance on an issue will usual find it.

Kaz
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Old 01-24-2009, 02:07 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RickyMaveety View Post
As everyone knows, I'll do my level best to give people all sorts of reasons not to purchase Sony products (some of which probably don't have the all time best logical foundation), but accusing them of religious intolerance? That's even further out in left field than I'm willing to wander.
Might be right field actually
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Old 01-24-2009, 02:10 PM   #69
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Actually, the US Presidential oath of office doesn't include any mention of god:

"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."

However, many presidents have added "So help me God" afterwards.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zelda_pinwheel View Post
isn't that the point being made ? i would think that the US justice system is a clear example of an organisation which should be secular. i also am a bit shocked that a judge would refer to god, that god is mentioned in the presidential oath, etc. even from over here it is clear that there is a very strong religious (christian) bias in the US.
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Old 01-24-2009, 02:19 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kazbates View Post
Frankly, what I find surprising is the ridicule and vehemence with which many in this thread are commenting on the opinion of the original poster. Whether you agree with his statements or not, he has a right to voice his opinions without being made to feel foolish. I find it interesting how the word, "Intolerance" is used in regards to msmith when it can easily be used toward many of those posting an opposing view. Unfortunately, anytime someone presents themselves as a Christian, people jump to the conclusion that they are fanatical and intolerant when that is generally not the case.

For those who wonder how references to God can be included in much of our American government, the founding fathers were predominently believers whose families came to this country to worship freely in whatever way they chose. When our constitution was written, there was some discussion whether or not to include a reference to God. They chose to include it based on the fact that the majority of people in the colonies were believers. More importantly, the separation of church and state does not say that our government cannot make reference to a diety. It states that there cannot be any government sanctioned or sponsored religion.

Kaz
It works both ways.

If you want tolerance for your religion, whatever it may be, you MUST have tolerance for all other religions, or those who do not believe in religions.

Believe how you choose. Thats freedom.

Accusing a company of supporting an agenda from a sample that was downloaded is just silly.

Anytime you voice an opinion, you stand the chance of being made to feel foolish. Its the risk you take.

As far as I know, political correctness hasn't made it mandatory to agree with anything anyone says.

yet.
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Old 01-24-2009, 02:21 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by kazbates View Post
For those who wonder how references to God can be included in much of our American government, the founding fathers were predominently believers whose families came to this country to worship freely in whatever way they chose. When our constitution was written, there was some discussion whether or not to include a reference to God. They chose to include it based on the fact that the majority of people in the colonies were believers.
Kaz
Many of the current references to God in American culture ("God" in money, reference in the pledge of allegiance) came as a response to Communism in the early Cold War era.

Also, the Constitution makes no mention or reference to God whatsoever.
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Old 01-24-2009, 02:25 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kazbates View Post
Frankly, what I find surprising is the ridicule and vehemence with which many in this thread are commenting on the opinion of the original poster. Whether you agree with his statements or not, he has a right to voice his opinions without being made to feel foolish. I find it interesting how the word, "Intolerance" is used in regards to msmith when it can easily be used toward many of those posting an opposing view. Unfortunately, anytime someone presents themselves as a Christian, people jump to the conclusion that they are fanatical and intolerant when that is generally not the case.

For those who wonder how references to God can be included in much of our American government, the founding fathers were predominently believers whose families came to this country to worship freely in whatever way they chose. When our constitution was written, there was some discussion whether or not to include a reference to God. They chose to include it based on the fact that the majority of people in the colonies were believers. More importantly, the separation of church and state does not say that our government cannot make reference to a diety. It states that there cannot be any government sanctioned or sponsored religion.

As for promoting the book, people who are searching for something to justify their stance on an issue will usual find it.

Kaz
Noted in red. A very generalized statement that is not worthy of you.

A word to the wise, threads at MR tend to have a life all their own. If anyone has a concern about having their opinion bashed to bits, it's probably best not to post it in the first place. When I think of all the names I've been called for expressing an opinion ... snork. Too funny.

But, really, the OP made a loaded statement, and then asked if anyone else shared the opinion. That's a bit like walking into a tiger cage wearing a raw meat outfit with a sign that says "Eat Me!!"

As to your last statement, that's true about any issue. "[P]eople who are searching for something to justify their stance on an issue will usual [sic] find it."

I'll go you one better. People who are searching for something to justify their stance on an issue will always find it. Even if they have to make it up.

As an example, I'd love to know from what credible source the statistic of 90% of Americans believing in (a) god came from. Considering that a large percentage of Americans are still of an age where they still believe in the Easter Bunny .... that's just not saying all that much.


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Originally Posted by mtravellerh View Post
Might be right field actually
Eh, maybe you're right on that .... so perhaps it would be better if I just said "outfield."
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Old 01-24-2009, 02:30 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by kazbates View Post
Frankly, what I find surprising is the ridicule and vehemence with which many in this thread are commenting on the opinion of the original poster. Whether you agree with his statements or not, he has a right to voice his opinions without being made to feel foolish. I find it interesting how the word, "Intolerance" is used in regards to msmith when it can easily be used toward many of those posting an opposing view. Unfortunately, anytime someone presents themselves as a Christian, people jump to the conclusion that they are fanatical and intolerant when that is generally not the case.

For those who wonder how references to God can be included in much of our American government, the founding fathers were predominently believers whose families came to this country to worship freely in whatever way they chose. When our constitution was written, there was some discussion whether or not to include a reference to God. They chose to include it based on the fact that the majority of people in the colonies were believers. More importantly, the separation of church and state does not say that our government cannot make reference to a diety. It states that there cannot be any government sanctioned or sponsored religion.

As for promoting the book, people who are searching for something to justify their stance on an issue will usual find it.
The founding fathers seems to have been deists and unitarians (http://antiwarrepublicans.com/foundingfathers.aspx). The same page says:
Quote:
The Constitution does not state the term God anywhere and the reference to “Creator” in the Declaration of Independence is often taken out of context. The Founding Fathers wrote “Creator” in the famous, “all men are created equal and that we are endowed from our Creator with certain unalienable Rights among them Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness” to mean God, but not the God of the Judeo-Christian tradition of a human-like person who sits in judgment over his flock.
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Old 01-24-2009, 02:34 PM   #74
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Frankly, what I find surprising is the ridicule and vehemence with which many in this thread are commenting on the opinion of the original poster. Whether you agree with his statements or not, he has a right to voice his opinions without being made to feel foolish.
Kaz
mrsmith denies Sony the right to publish Dawkins opinion. What possible other conclusion is there to his opening posting?

"IMO, this tells me a few things.

1. Sony does not care that (according to numerous polls) that 90% of Americans believe in God. They are clearly interested in promoting their own agenda, regardless of the fact that it may insult 90% of their customers.

2. The choice of including this book demonstrates a policy that they agree with the content of the book, to the point that it should be promoted to every single person who purchases their ebook reader.

3. Sony is committed to this type of religious intolerance because it apparently has also been included for free on the new 700 model."

With absolute and utter respect for mrsmith's belief in a deity, that is a load of cobblers.

May all forum readers enjoy a happy and wonderful Year of the Ox.
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Old 01-24-2009, 03:15 PM   #75
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But Mr. Dawkins has said some very inflammatory things towards people of faith.
Mostly towards monotheists. His arguments dissolve if you don't believe that "god" means "eternal, omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent, and good."

He has accepted the Christian definition of "deity" and works to disprove it; his arguments are fairly meaningless to people of faiths who don't accept the Christian definition of "god."

As a devout person of a non-monotheistic religion, I find its inclusion much less inflammatory than, say, an excerpt of the Bible. But mostly, I agree with the people who assume they decided to include it based on recent book sales, and that they're likely to change the "starter pack" for Sony Readers every year or two to match current market preferences, whatever those happen to be.
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