Register Guidelines E-Books Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   MobileRead Forums > E-Book Formats > ePub

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 12-18-2008, 12:21 PM   #31
tompe
Grand Sorcerer
tompe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tompe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tompe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tompe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tompe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tompe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tompe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tompe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tompe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tompe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tompe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 7,149
Karma: 4315826
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Linköpng, Sweden
Device: Nexus 7, Nexus 5, iPad 2, Kindle PW
Quote:
Originally Posted by zelda_pinwheel View Post
o
however i also think that perhaps it's important to stop considering justification the only valid way of presenting text, and consider instead that it is one option of several, equally valid.
It was pretty good on the Cybook when they accepted individual lines that was not justified. What they have now is much more disturbing to read.

Ragged right could also be disturbing if it is done badly. You have to look at the whole paragraph and choose suitable hyphenation to do it really good.
tompe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2008, 12:33 PM   #32
Hadrien
Feedbooks.com Co-Founder
Hadrien understands the importance of being earnest.Hadrien understands the importance of being earnest.Hadrien understands the importance of being earnest.Hadrien understands the importance of being earnest.Hadrien understands the importance of being earnest.Hadrien understands the importance of being earnest.Hadrien understands the importance of being earnest.Hadrien understands the importance of being earnest.Hadrien understands the importance of being earnest.Hadrien understands the importance of being earnest.Hadrien understands the importance of being earnest.
 
Hadrien's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,265
Karma: 145123
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Paris, France
Device: Sony PRS-t-1/350/300/500/505/600/700, Nexus S, iPad
In my case, I really need both justification and hyphenation.

Without justification, it feels like I'm reading a screen not a book.
But if it's fully justified without hyphenation, you get some very ugly results.

I agree that the previous firmware on the Cybook, that avoided full justification when it would be ugly, looked a lot better than the current one.
Hadrien is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Advertisement
Old 12-18-2008, 01:14 PM   #33
HarryT
eBook Enthusiast
HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
HarryT's Avatar
 
Posts: 65,601
Karma: 44618293
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: UK
Device: Kindle Voyage, iPad Mini, iPhone 4, MS Surface Pro, N7
Quote:
Originally Posted by zelda_pinwheel View Post
however i also think that perhaps it's important to stop considering justification the only valid way of presenting text, and consider instead that it is one option of several, equally valid.
Sorry, I don't follow you. Could you elaborate?
HarryT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2008, 01:21 PM   #34
zelda_pinwheel
zeldinha zippy zeldissima
zelda_pinwheel ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.zelda_pinwheel ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.zelda_pinwheel ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.zelda_pinwheel ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.zelda_pinwheel ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.zelda_pinwheel ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.zelda_pinwheel ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.zelda_pinwheel ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.zelda_pinwheel ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.zelda_pinwheel ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.zelda_pinwheel ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
zelda_pinwheel's Avatar
 
Posts: 27,828
Karma: 908606
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Paris, France
Device: eb1150 & is that a nook in her pocket, or she just happy to see you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by HarryT View Post
Sorry, I don't follow you. Could you elaborate?
left alignement is a perfectly acceptable way of presenting text. in fact sometimes it is the best way of presenting a certain text. full justification is not the be-all end-all of text layout, even for novels.
zelda_pinwheel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2008, 01:27 PM   #35
HarryT
eBook Enthusiast
HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
HarryT's Avatar
 
Posts: 65,601
Karma: 44618293
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: UK
Device: Kindle Voyage, iPad Mini, iPhone 4, MS Surface Pro, N7
Quote:
Originally Posted by zelda_pinwheel View Post
left alignement is a perfectly acceptable way of presenting text. in fact sometimes it is the best way of presenting a certain text. full justification is not the be-all end-all of text layout, even for novels.
Certainly, I agree with you. The overwhelming majority of books are printed with full justification, however, so perhaps it is a feature which people rather "expect" to be present in a reader?
HarryT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2008, 01:27 PM   #36
Hadrien
Feedbooks.com Co-Founder
Hadrien understands the importance of being earnest.Hadrien understands the importance of being earnest.Hadrien understands the importance of being earnest.Hadrien understands the importance of being earnest.Hadrien understands the importance of being earnest.Hadrien understands the importance of being earnest.Hadrien understands the importance of being earnest.Hadrien understands the importance of being earnest.Hadrien understands the importance of being earnest.Hadrien understands the importance of being earnest.Hadrien understands the importance of being earnest.
 
Hadrien's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,265
Karma: 145123
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Paris, France
Device: Sony PRS-t-1/350/300/500/505/600/700, Nexus S, iPad
Quote:
Originally Posted by zelda_pinwheel View Post
left alignement is a perfectly acceptable way of presenting text. in fact sometimes it is the best way of presenting a certain text. full justification is not the be-all end-all of text layout, even for novels.
It's all about choice: the user should be able to select between ragged right and justified text, and the ability to turn hyphenation on or off.
Hadrien is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2008, 01:32 PM   #37
zelda_pinwheel
zeldinha zippy zeldissima
zelda_pinwheel ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.zelda_pinwheel ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.zelda_pinwheel ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.zelda_pinwheel ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.zelda_pinwheel ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.zelda_pinwheel ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.zelda_pinwheel ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.zelda_pinwheel ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.zelda_pinwheel ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.zelda_pinwheel ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.zelda_pinwheel ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
zelda_pinwheel's Avatar
 
Posts: 27,828
Karma: 908606
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Paris, France
Device: eb1150 & is that a nook in her pocket, or she just happy to see you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by HarryT View Post
Certainly, I agree with you. The overwhelming majority of books are printed with full justification, however, so perhaps it is a feature which people rather "expect" to be present in a reader?
well, the vast majority of books are printed on paper, too... it's just another convention, which people are used to. i think that people expect it now but maybe the convention will evolve. i think it's nice to propose it for people who prefer that, however i don't think that *not* proposing it is necessarily catastrophic ; there are many conditions which can make a convention irrelevant or obsolete.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hadrien View Post
It's all about choice: the user should be able to select between ragged right and justified text, and the ability to turn hyphenation on or off.
absolutely !
zelda_pinwheel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2008, 02:37 PM   #38
DaleDe
Grand Sorcerer
DaleDe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DaleDe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DaleDe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DaleDe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DaleDe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DaleDe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DaleDe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DaleDe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DaleDe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DaleDe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DaleDe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
DaleDe's Avatar
 
Posts: 9,790
Karma: 5137308
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Grass Valley, CA
Device: EB 1150, EZ Reader, Literati, iPad 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by HarryT View Post
Certainly, I agree with you. The overwhelming majority of books are printed with full justification, however, so perhaps it is a feature which people rather "expect" to be present in a reader?
And it seems that they are content with the sloppy, ill done full justification that they are currently getting unlike paper books. Well at least some of them.

Dale
DaleDe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2008, 05:02 AM   #39
richardigp
Enthusiast
richardigp began at the beginning.
 
Posts: 27
Karma: 18
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Currently living in Pune India
Device: Sony
Quote:
Originally Posted by HarryT View Post
The CyBook gives one the choice (unless the book "hard codes" it) of left or full justification, and for most situations I find myself that full justification looks a lot better. The only time it really looks "wrong" is when one has a very large font size and/or very few words on a line.

The Sony Reader is a little "odd" in that for LRF/LRX files one only has full justification available, while for ePub files one only has left justification!
That's because the Sony device uses the ADE rendering engine for ePUB.
richardigp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2008, 05:29 AM   #40
Jellby
frumious Bandersnatch
Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Jellby's Avatar
 
Posts: 6,323
Karma: 4964183
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Spaniard in Sweden
Device: Cybook Orizon, Kobo Aura
Hmm... these readers that do not support justification... do they really not support it or is it just a fixed default?

I mean, if the CSS stylesheet in an ePUB file sets the paragraph to be "text-align: justify", does it work? If this is the case, at least with non-DRM files there is the possibility of modifying the styles in the file...
Jellby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2008, 07:29 AM   #41
Alfy
Liseur de Bonne Aventure
Alfy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Alfy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Alfy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Alfy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Alfy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Alfy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Alfy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Alfy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Alfy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Alfy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Alfy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Alfy's Avatar
 
Posts: 372
Karma: 2176666
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Paris, France
Device: PRS T1
No, it does not work, the CSS is just ignored for justification, and that is the problem. Implementation of full justification is optionnal according to the standard, and Adobe has made the choice of not including it. Just plain laziness, if you ask me.
Alfy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2008, 07:30 AM   #42
Hadrien
Feedbooks.com Co-Founder
Hadrien understands the importance of being earnest.Hadrien understands the importance of being earnest.Hadrien understands the importance of being earnest.Hadrien understands the importance of being earnest.Hadrien understands the importance of being earnest.Hadrien understands the importance of being earnest.Hadrien understands the importance of being earnest.Hadrien understands the importance of being earnest.Hadrien understands the importance of being earnest.Hadrien understands the importance of being earnest.Hadrien understands the importance of being earnest.
 
Hadrien's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,265
Karma: 145123
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Paris, France
Device: Sony PRS-t-1/350/300/500/505/600/700, Nexus S, iPad
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jellby View Post
Hmm... these readers that do not support justification... do they really not support it or is it just a fixed default?

I mean, if the CSS stylesheet in an ePUB file sets the paragraph to be "text-align: justify", does it work? If this is the case, at least with non-DRM files there is the possibility of modifying the styles in the file...
No it doesn't work in DE if you set text-align to justify.

In general, content producers should avoid forcing a text-align if it's not center or right, and let the user/reading system decide.
Hadrien is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2008, 06:56 PM   #43
alehel
Connoisseur
alehel began at the beginning.
 
Posts: 80
Karma: 10
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Norway
Device: Cybook Gen 3
I just had a look at the kindle and I must admit I do prefear the text when its using full justification. For some reason I just felt it looked cleaner, and I've been reading epub files with left justification for several months now.
alehel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2008, 08:59 PM   #44
alehel
Connoisseur
alehel began at the beginning.
 
Posts: 80
Karma: 10
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Norway
Device: Cybook Gen 3
Now that I have loads of epub files I've been thinking about buying the Sony 505 but this topic got me wondering. Is this only a problem with DE or does the 505 also lack justification?

[EDIT]Never mind, I just reread the very first post [/EDIT]
alehel is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Cover Art or lack there of... AnemicOak General Discussions 37 07-22-2010 05:30 PM
Lack of cover for PRS600 jedavis1 Sony Reader 20 10-07-2009 08:41 AM
Seeming lack of UK content - disappointing! Croker Sony Reader 27 09-19-2008 04:15 PM
lack of advertisment Someguy Sony Reader 12 01-12-2008 08:53 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:15 PM.


MobileRead.com is a privately owned, operated and funded community.