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Old 12-07-2008, 10:52 AM   #46
yvanleterrible
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There are omnibus editions. Maybe we should have more,I don't know if we should. But what I'd like to see is that as we read the book we have gotten, we should really go back to its original thread and post our appreciation or comments about the works.

There is an other consideration I would like to underline. A property right to the visual format of the uploader. Lots of care is worked into these books, shouldn't the uploader at least be asked permission about "torrenting"?

And why should we get books that we'll never read? That's hoarding.

Last edited by yvanleterrible; 12-07-2008 at 10:55 AM.
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Old 12-07-2008, 10:55 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by yvanleterrible View Post
A property right to the visual format of the uploader. Lots of care is worked into these books, shouldn't the uploader at least be asked permission about "torrenting"?
A public domain book made freely available for download via anonymous connections?

I'm not trying to understate or under-appreciate anyone's work and have already said I personally respect the effort and wishes of the people proof-reading, correcting, and formatting these books but I'm not sure I agree with you. Actually, I'm pretty sure I don't.

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And why should we get books that we'll never read? That's hoarding.
OMGWTFBBQ hoarding! Yes, and?
Is my 'hoarding' of electronic versions of public domain works somehow a crime, offensive, or unethical?

Are libraries also hoards? And before you ask, I freely share my toys. I don't even require a membership card or donation.

Last edited by acidzebra; 12-07-2008 at 11:01 AM.
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Old 12-07-2008, 11:04 AM   #48
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OMGWTFBBQ hoarding! Yes, and?
Is my 'hoarding' of electronic versions of public domain works somehow a crime, offensive, or unethical?
No.

However, since you mentioned the Dickens books that I've created, you'll know, if you look at the EBook uploads forum on a regular basis, that I regularly post new versions of those books as I properly proof-read them, or think of other improvements. It's in your own interest to get the latest copy of a book "fresh" from the forum library at the time that you want to read it, rather than read a version you downloaded a couple of years ago. There will almost certainly have been a revised version posted in that time.

But of course, at the end of the day, the choice is yours to make. I certainly claim no "rights" over anything I've uploaded.
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Old 12-07-2008, 11:04 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by acidzebra View Post
A public domain book made freely available for download via anonymous connections?

I'm not trying to bagatellise anyone's work and have already said I personally respect the effort and wishes of the people proof-reading, correcting, and formatting these books but I'm not sure I agree with you. Actually, I'm pretty sure I don't.



OMGWTFBBQ hoarding! Yes, and?
Is my 'hoarding' of electronic versions of public domain works somehow a crime, offensive, or unethical?

Are libraries also hoards? And before you ask, I freely share my toys. I don't even require a membership card or donation.
I would say acting as a pig is unethical. And I would add that libraries have a maximum number of books allowed per rental. MR's collection is a library and does not impose itself but it should act on torrent.
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Old 12-07-2008, 11:05 AM   #50
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I'm just trying to understand your adamant opinion. I'm lucky if I can read 100 books a year. If come here to get them, I'll spend hardly an hour or two over the year to find and download the latest versions. And I'll spend a gazillion hours reading and enjoying them. That's hardly a comparison with downloading many web pages daily via a slow modem.
I already have more books than I will be able to read. So the question is if a book can be pushed near the top of my reading queue. And if I have to do a lot of boring stuff to get the book the probability that it will get to the top decrease.
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Old 12-07-2008, 11:06 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by yvanleterrible View Post
I would say acting as a pig is unethical. And I would add that libraries have a maximum number of books allowed per rental. MR's collection is a library and does not impose itself but it should act on torrent.
I also buy many physical books at a time, planning to read only one or two right now, and some with no fixed reading plan in mind. I'm sorry I and my love of books and reading don't live up to your rather interesting standards of ethics.
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Old 12-07-2008, 11:10 AM   #52
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There is a little calculation I perform that would rationalize an urge to hoard.

How many books do you read a week, how old are you and how old do you think you'll live up to?

My expectancy would be that I can read an other 400 books. I will choose those with care.
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Old 12-07-2008, 11:24 AM   #53
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i like to have plenty of books to choose from, that way i can always find a book that corresponds to my mood. so if a book on mr looks interesting to me, i will download it even if i don't read it right away. i don't have a master reading plan, i just read whatever sounds good at the time. i probably already have more books than i can read. i don't see the harm in that ; i have too many paper books, some of which i've bought and not yet read, and that is annoying because i must store them and dust them and such, but i have no such trouble with ebooks, so why not download lots of them ? at least that way, i know i'll never run out of reading material, and i'll always be able to find something which tempts me.
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Old 12-07-2008, 11:46 AM   #54
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The mandates behind this book collection are to maintain and augment the number of members and to promote the ebook as a support for culture. This is a book by book proposition, again unsuitable for mass transfer.
I'd have to totally disagree. As a "hoarder" myself (I prefer to call myself a collector ;-) I find the opposite to be true. If the book collection were a static thing and never changing, I might see this as being the case, but as books are added those of us who collect ebooks do come back to the sites and participate in them.

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I'm just trying to understand your adamant opinion. I'm lucky if I can read 100 books a year. If come here to get them, I'll spend hardly an hour or two over the year to find and download the latest versions. And I'll spend a gazillion hours reading and enjoying them. That's hardly a comparison with downloading many web pages daily via a slow modem.
Lets put it another way. I see this as having the books at your home already, vs having to go to the bookstore or public library each and every time you want to read a book.

Since I have thousands of books already downloaded, I tend to browse my shelves, reading passages from them, much as I do with real books before deciding what to read next. Since I have them already downloaded, I don't have to spend lots of time clicking and downloading as I would have to do here. Likewise by having the books already on my computer, I have discovered lots of things to read that I would probably never have touched based on a simple author name/title. This is because it was already in my collection and I could quickly see what it was about.

Likewise, its the reason I go to bookstores every week to browse their new releases vs just going to a website like Amazon and ordering a new book there. There is something to be said for having a large collection of books in hand and looking over the introductions and first chapters vs just going to a list of books such as may be found on Amazon.com and ordering just by Author/Title name or browsing the titles found here.

Last edited by DannyR; 12-07-2008 at 12:09 PM.
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Old 12-07-2008, 11:46 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by yvanleterrible View Post
There is a little calculation I perform that would rationalize an urge to hoard.

How many books do you read a week, how old are you and how old do you think you'll live up to?

My expectancy would be that I can read an other 400 books. I will choose those with care.
Okay, now you're depressing me, Yvan. (slowly counting on fingers)
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Old 12-07-2008, 12:04 PM   #56
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Well, feel sorry for you. I read about 2-3 books a week, so if I live to a hundred years I hope to read another 5000 or so books. ;-)
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Old 12-07-2008, 05:22 PM   #57
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Well, feel sorry for you. I read about 2-3 books a week, so if I live to a hundred years I hope to read another 5000 or so books. ;-)
Good for you and I really hope to read much much more than the 400 I mentioned!
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Old 12-08-2008, 04:34 PM   #58
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I think a lot of people here are pre-judged against people who prefer downloading 'en-masse' over selective downloads.

Just because something carries a name 'bittorrent', or someone loves to download lots, should not be withheld from him, unless we're going to start placing limits on amounts of downloads one is allowed to do per day...
That would really start messing things up; for every one.

Just because 'you' (noone in specific) are downloading 1 to 2 books a week, does not mean everyone else does things that way...

I find the response of some members of this forum about mass downloading, the same as racism... Just because someone prefers to download lots, doesn't mean you should say 'no' without reason, or no just because "I don't like to", or "that sounds weird, so we should not do this".

I mean, I understand if it not benefits some people; at least don't throw salt in someone else's water when they want to go somewhere.

There are valid points mentioned in making life easier for those who want to download more files at once, regardless of all the opposing thoughts mentioned.

I'm not saying we should replace current system. Just merely add to it the function of mass downloads, which seemingly quite some forummembers desire.

If you're really into downloading book per book, you can still do that the ordinary way.

That's my toughts about it...
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Old 12-09-2008, 10:10 AM   #59
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Well said. There is no reason why both groups can't be accommodated.
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Old 12-09-2008, 10:31 AM   #60
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I think charging racism is a bit strong. No one I heard was saying anything against you personally about downloading whatever you want. Just because people don't agree with you I do not believe it should descend to claiming personal attacks.

The people who generate the books would like to have some control over their work, which is considerable. It seems to me that the idea of massdownloading causes a lack of control. They will no longer feel that they can understand and be appreciated for the work but the work just becomes another number in hoarding hundreds or thousands of books. The system works today with every download representing a vote of confidence in the person doing the work and shows interest in the types of books being worked on. While the claim is that there may be a way to statistically figure out what books are being downloaded with additional effort the idea of mass downloading means that many may not ever read the eBooks so whats the point?

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