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Old 11-16-2008, 04:13 PM   #1
charadeur
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Someone give me a push

I have been reading for two days and I have it narrowed down to the two most popular models. Kindle or Sony 505. What I think I have learned so far:

Sony
Pro:
  1. Open format allows for most file types to be used.
  2. Ergonomics are better.
  3. Design is more aesthetically pleasing
Con:
  1. Available content is not as good as Amazon
  2. You must own a Kindle and do some questionably legal things to get Amazon content on your Kindle.

Kindle
Pro: Easy download of Amazon content.
Con:
  1. Poor ergonomics
  2. Bigger and heavier
  3. Requires running pearl scrips and much screwing around to get content purchased elsewhere onto the Kindle.

Is this a fair summery? Features seem to no be debated much between the two. I really like the Sony better but the content thing is holding me back. Can anyone convince me that anything I can get for the Kindle is available somewhere for the Sony? Or perhaps convince me that the Kindle is not all that ergonomically bad or such an ugly duckling?
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Old 11-16-2008, 04:56 PM   #2
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I own a Kindle and it is an ugly duckling compared to the Sony; however, it is not nearly as bad as people make it out to be.

I carry mine around in my handbag with no problems. If it were truly that big/clunky, I would've returned it an a heartbeat.

The page turn keys will take some getting used to; however, I now like the large placement and how I can reach them with one finger no matter how I am holding it. Once I got used to it, I actually prefer it from an ergonomic perspective.

You can annotate text and there is a built-in dictionaty on the Kindle but not the 505 (doesn't matter to me but might to some).

The Kindle does NOT support secure pdfs and you can't convert them with the simple scripts. This is a factor if you want to borrow from an eLibrary that doesn't offer mobi. (That being said, for other conversions, the hard part about the scripts is installing/learning to use and you will find a lot of help here...after that its really easy).

I give the nod to Amazon customer support. Hopefully you won't need but I did recently and although they were able to walk me through a fix, they assured me that if it didn't fix the problem, a new Kindle would be on its way.

I REALLY like the Sony form factor...but its still not enough for me to give up whispernet and Amazon content/pricing advantages of the Kindle.

If ergonomics is your primary concern, why not try the Kindle for 30 days and see if its really a problem? You can always return it.

Last edited by Boston; 11-16-2008 at 05:02 PM.
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Old 11-16-2008, 05:58 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boston View Post

I REALLY like the Sony form factor...but its still not enough for me to give up whispernet and Amazon content/pricing advantages of the Kindle.
Now what you said here is something I have not considered. Is Amazon pricing really less than the other ebook retailers?
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Old 11-16-2008, 06:20 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charadeur View Post
I have been reading for two days and I have it narrowed down to the two most popular models. Kindle or Sony 505. What I think I have learned so far:

Sony
Pro:
  1. Open format allows for most file types to be used.
  2. Ergonomics are better.
  3. Design is more aesthetically pleasing
Con:
  1. Available content is not as good as Amazon
  2. You must own a Kindle and do some questionably legal things to get Amazon content on your Kindle.

Kindle
Pro: Easy download of Amazon content.
Con:
  1. Poor ergonomics
  2. Bigger and heavier
  3. Requires running pearl scrips and much screwing around to get content purchased elsewhere onto the Kindle.

Is this a fair summery? Features seem to no be debated much between the two. I really like the Sony better but the content thing is holding me back. Can anyone convince me that anything I can get for the Kindle is available somewhere for the Sony? Or perhaps convince me that the Kindle is not all that ergonomically bad or such an ugly duckling?
Red highlighted two amazing misstatements and one opinion masquerading as fact.

If you don't like the Kindle, do us all a favor and don't buy one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boston View Post
I own a Kindle and it is an ugly duckling compared to the Sony; however, it is not nearly as bad as people make it out to be.

I carry mine around in my handbag with no problems. If it were truly that big/clunky, I would've returned it an a heartbeat.

The page turn keys will take some getting used to; however, I now like the large placement and how I can reach them with one finger no matter how I am holding it. Once I got used to it, I actually prefer it from an ergonomic perspective.

You can annotate text and there is a built-in dictionaty on the Kindle but not the 505 (doesn't matter to me but might to some).

The Kindle does NOT support secure pdfs and you can't convert them with the simple scripts. This is a factor if you want to borrow from an eLibrary that doesn't offer mobi. (That being said, for other conversions, the hard part about the scripts is installing/learning to use and you will find a lot of help here...after that its really easy).

I give the nod to Amazon customer support. Hopefully you won't need but I did recently and although they were able to walk me through a fix, they assured me that if it didn't fix the problem, a new Kindle would be on its way.

I REALLY like the Sony form factor...but its still not enough for me to give up whispernet and Amazon content/pricing advantages of the Kindle.

If ergonomics is your primary concern, why not try the Kindle for 30 days and see if its really a problem? You can always return it.
Again, an opinion stated as fact. My personal pet peeve. And, I don't know any Kindle owners who consider it "bad," so I'm not certain how you can even make the statement that it's "not as bad" as people make it out to be.

Quote:
Originally Posted by charadeur View Post
Now what you said here is something I have not considered. Is Amazon pricing really less than the other ebook retailers?
Yes, Amazon pricing is quite a bit lower than other ebook retailers. And, you should probably still get a Sony if you just want to have an ebook reader for its "looks." How's that for a push??

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Old 11-16-2008, 06:30 PM   #5
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mea culpa...funny thing is that I actually started the thread by stating "In my opinon.." but removed it because most of what I post here is exactly that given I don't claim to be an expert on any of this. (I have another bad habit of prefacing my comments saying "to be honest" which people say implies I'm not always honest ). That being said, I apologize if anyone felt their opinions undermined by my statements.

What I should have stated was that I personally was pleasantly surprised by the Kindle when I received it. Not just the comments but the pictures had me expecting something much worse.

Likewise, I think the scripts are easy enough to run (when needed) but others may not

Last edited by Boston; 11-16-2008 at 06:41 PM.
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Old 11-16-2008, 06:33 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charadeur View Post
I have been reading for two days and I have it narrowed down to the two most popular models. Kindle or Sony 505. What I think I have learned so far:

Sony
Pro:
  1. Open format allows for most file types to be used.
  2. Ergonomics are better.
  3. Design is more aesthetically pleasing
Con:
  1. Available content is not as good as Amazon
  2. You must own a Kindle and do some questionably legal things to get Amazon content on your Kindle.

Kindle
Pro: Easy download of Amazon content.
Con:
  1. Poor ergonomics
  2. Bigger and heavier
  3. Requires running pearl scrips and much screwing around to get content purchased elsewhere onto the Kindle.

Is this a fair summery? Features seem to no be debated much between the two. I really like the Sony better but the content thing is holding me back. Can anyone convince me that anything I can get for the Kindle is available somewhere for the Sony? Or perhaps convince me that the Kindle is not all that ergonomically bad or such an ugly duckling?
Get the Cybook
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Old 11-16-2008, 06:39 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charadeur View Post
I have been reading for two days and I have it narrowed down to the two most popular models. Kindle or Sony 505. What I think I have learned so far:

Sony
Pro:
  1. Open format allows for most file types to be used.
  2. Ergonomics are better.
  3. Design is more aesthetically pleasing
Con:
  1. Available content is not as good as Amazon
  2. You must own a Kindle and do some questionably legal things to get Amazon content on your Kindle.

Kindle
Pro: Easy download of Amazon content.
Con:
  1. Poor ergonomics
  2. Bigger and heavier
  3. Requires running pearl scrips and much screwing around to get content purchased elsewhere onto the Kindle.

Is this a fair summery? Features seem to no be debated much between the two. I really like the Sony better but the content thing is holding me back. Can anyone convince me that anything I can get for the Kindle is available somewhere for the Sony? Or perhaps convince me that the Kindle is not all that ergonomically bad or such an ugly duckling?
No it is not a fair summary:

1) weight: Kindle = 10.3 oz , Sony = 9 oz (if you can tell the difference than...)
2) Ergonomics: You have to try both before you can say that. I prefer the ergonomics of the Kindle.
3) Asthetics: Beauty is in the eye of the beholder
4) Content: Amazon wins with depth of catalog and price
5) Conversions: Since the Kindle catalog is so deep, there is rarely need to convert anything because it's in the store. Those times when a Kindle owner wants to buy something outside of Amazon, there are tools which are easy to use to help with the conversion.

On the Sony side, the Sony store is not yet up to speed as far as content. I don't know that it will ever compete on price. conversion comes into play when a Sony owner wants to read something not in it's native formats. Luckily, Kovid took it upon himself to create Calibre to make that task easier.

On the whole it is no more of a pain to convert content for the Kindle than it is for the Sony, the exception, IMO, is pdf's which contain complex graphs and tables (things I don't need as a usual part of my reading).

My impression from your post is that you really want to buy the Sony and you just need validation that you are making the right choice. You should buy it. I think you'll be happy with your choice.
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Old 11-16-2008, 06:41 PM   #8
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Old 11-16-2008, 06:51 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boston View Post
mea culpa...funny thing is that I actually started the thread by stating "In my opinon.." but removed it because most of what I post here is exactly that given I don't claim to be an expert on any of this. (I have another bad habit of prefacing my comments saying "to be honest" which people say implies I'm not always honest ). That being said, I apologize if anyone felt their opinions undermined by my statements.

What I should have stated was that I personally was pleasantly surprised by the Kindle when I received it. Not just the comments but the pictures had me expecting something much worse.

Likewise, I think the scripts are easy enough to run (when needed) but others may not
Well, yes, that would have been a great way to state it. And when I saw and handled a Sony, the pictures and the comments had me expecting much better. I was just a bit disappointed in the Sonys I have seen up close and personal. Add that to the lack of content, and I'm extremely happy I got my Kindle.

However, anyone who is the least bit conflicted about what to purchase is probably going to second guess themselves to death and back no matter what the hell they purchase. So, I just keep telling them to purchase a Sony, not because I like or want a Sony (I really love my Kindle), but because I most emphatically do NOT want to hear them bitch later on about having bought a Kindle when they REALLY wanted a Sony.

Now, if they want to bitch about having bought a Sony when they REALLY wanted a Kindle .... fine by me.
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Old 11-16-2008, 07:00 PM   #10
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The Sony PRS505 is a very nice reader. I can't compare it to the Kindle as I don't have one, but I am very happy with my Sony.

There is a lot of content available or convertable for it - you just need to look outside the Sony store. Booksonboard.com and fictionwise.com are favourites with many people here, and there are others. There are also plenty of knowledgable and helpful people here should you need to convert anything, and as has been mentioned, Calibre is a very useful program.

If you like the Sony, go for it.
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Old 11-16-2008, 08:00 PM   #11
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A couple points.

Pro #1 for sony is really not correct. It's just tools like calibre work so well, since it can easily convert almost any format to LRF the conversion is almost seamless. So it gives the appearance that SONY supports any format. However the same can be achieved for the Kindle with tools like MobiPerl (lit2mobi) and MobiCreator.

Also on your Kindle Con #3 the same applies for the SONY.

Also you might want to add as a pro for kindle the fact that you can annotate and have a built in dictionary.


For me the question comes down to form vs content (ease of buying/installing it)

Personally I really like my SONY device, it is very ergonomic and the design is quite elegant and very portable, I carry this device everywhere with me. It fits easily in most large pockets. The community support is by far the best and is the only non PC device that supports secure PDF.

What the kindle has is content. Not only does it have the most selection, it also has the best prices. There might be a few exceptions but most of the time Amazon will be cheaper.

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Old 11-16-2008, 09:07 PM   #12
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Ricky what I was looking for was confirmation that I was stating it correctly or not. Hence the reason I asked if the summery was fair.

I assumed that everyone would understand that beauty or ugly is subjective and not fact. I am always a function over form type of guy but if features are equal then how it looks is a valid decision point. If I had made up my mind I would have just bought the Sony and not have wasted your or my time asking.

Quote:
You must own a Kindle and do some questionably legal things to get Amazon content on your Kindle.
Please accept my apologies I did misstate what I meant in this one. What I should have said is:
You must own a Kindle and do some questionably legal things to get Amazon content on your Sony.
Is that stated correctly?

Quote:
Requires running pearl scrips and much screwing around to get content purchased elsewhere onto the Kindle.
Please let me know why that is incorrect about the above one? Is it because I stated it as "much screwing around" as opposed to say "some screwing around?" Or do I have it completely wrong?

It sounds like ebook pricing is one big plus for the Kindle. Browsing the Amazon store it seems like every book I am looking at reading has the "click here to let the publisher know you want this book on Kindle" (paraphrased.) It makes me wonder if I should not be looking at these devices yet. Though I must admit the last 5 books I read are available on Kindle. I was surprised to see even The Wordy Shipmates is available for Kendle.
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Old 11-16-2008, 09:17 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by daffy4u View Post
No it is not a fair summary:

1) weight: Kindle = 10.3 oz , Sony = 9 oz (if you can tell the difference than...)
2) Ergonomics: You have to try both before you can say that. I prefer the ergonomics of the Kindle.
3) Asthetics: Beauty is in the eye of the beholder
4) Content: Amazon wins with depth of catalog and price
5) Conversions: Since the Kindle catalog is so deep, there is rarely need to convert anything because it's in the store. Those times when a Kindle owner wants to buy something outside of Amazon, there are tools which are easy to use to help with the conversion.

On the Sony side, the Sony store is not yet up to speed as far as content. I don't know that it will ever compete on price. conversion comes into play when a Sony owner wants to read something not in it's native formats. Luckily, Kovid took it upon himself to create Calibre to make that task easier.

On the whole it is no more of a pain to convert content for the Kindle than it is for the Sony, the exception, IMO, is pdf's which contain complex graphs and tables (things I don't need as a usual part of my reading).

My impression from your post is that you really want to buy the Sony and you just need validation that you are making the right choice. You should buy it. I think you'll be happy with your choice.
Thanks for the detailed summery. I was obviously leaning toward the Sony when I posted that. But to be honest I have been back and forth so many times over the last two days that is why I posted.

I am thinking the easiest way might be to buy both and give the one I like least to my wife.
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Old 11-16-2008, 09:20 PM   #14
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Quote:

Quote:
Requires running pearl scrips and much screwing around to get content purchased elsewhere onto the Kindle.
Please let me know why that is incorrect about the above one? Is it because I stated it as "much screwing around" as opposed to say "some screwing around?" Or do I have it completely wrong?
You're weighing converting books for Kindle use heavier than you are for Sony use. They both use scripts where appropriate and other tools when appropriate. They're equally screwy, IMO. But as I said before, because Amazon has a deeper catalog there is usually less reason to have to "screw" with converting.
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Old 11-16-2008, 09:22 PM   #15
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I am thinking the easiest way might be to buy both and give the one I like least to my wife.
It would actually be to your advantage to have both in your household.
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