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Old 10-09-2008, 05:37 AM   #1
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Best refresh on eInk

I really want an eInk device so I can read ebooks outdoors. But I've tried using a Sony Reader 505 in Waterstones and the page refresh gave me a horrible headache. I don't think I'll get used to it as I really put the effort into "accepting" the refresh rate on the demo. I'm fine with LCDs, so I have a feeling it's just how slow the refresh rate is. I've checked the comparison wiki and all of the figures seem the same. Does anyone have any model recommendations or setting tweaks?
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Old 10-09-2008, 06:56 AM   #2
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In the Cybook you can turn off the page turn effect (“flashing”).
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Old 10-09-2008, 07:09 AM   #3
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I understand also that the new Sony PRS-700 doesn't "flash" when it turns the page.
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Old 10-09-2008, 07:43 AM   #4
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There is a reader where you can switch off the refresh inversion via menu.
There was discussion quite a long time ago, after some firmware update. It does refresh every tenth page turn or something like that, but the result is more ghosting.
I just do not remember what brand it is.

My sony Reader PRS500 has one of the most visible and slowest refreshes. I can tell you from my own experience, that you very soon stop noticing the refresh. Now, when I read I do not notice refresh at all. I know it is there, I just do not see it anymore. Our brain can very, very effectively filter out the noise.
You might go to a shop that can take your purchase back after a week or two and if you are not satisfied and try reading for some 20 hours.

Disclaimer:
Your Mileage Might Vary (Tm)
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Old 10-09-2008, 07:48 AM   #5
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I understand also that the new Sony PRS-700 doesn't "flash" when it turns the page.
Please see video:
http://vimeo.com/1890432
and here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hF8OmtyHx-I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5dpLiMAOv4

that was referenced in this thread
http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30201

Perhaps there is option in configuration, but out-of-the-box it does flash.

Last edited by kacir; 10-09-2008 at 08:01 AM. Reason: adding another video reference
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Old 10-09-2008, 07:49 AM   #6
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There is a reader where you can switch off the refresh inversion via menu.
Yes, the CyBook Gen3.
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Old 10-09-2008, 08:57 AM   #7
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I can tell you from my own experience, that you very soon stop noticing the refresh. Now, when I read I do not notice refresh at all. I know it is there, I just do not see it anymore. Our brain can very, very effectively filter out the noise.
You might go to a shop that can take your purchase back after a week or two and if you are not satisfied and try reading for some 20 hours.
It's not an "irritating" thing, it's a "blinding headache" thing. Based on past experience, it is very doubtful I'd get used to it

Thanks for the suggestions, folks. I should also have mentioned I live in Ireland, so the new Sony would be tricky to get.
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Old 10-09-2008, 09:45 AM   #8
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I'd be surprised if it turns out to be the page turning that's the cause of the problem & not something else, as I don't recall hearing anyone else having had a physiological problem with the page turning. Certainly, it's something that's striking to a new user of eInk, but that's quite different from what you're describing.

Given your experience, I'd suggest that you see if you can try some readers (including the Sony) in different environments, i.e. daylight, and make sure that if you do order a reader, you have the option to return it.
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Old 10-09-2008, 09:51 AM   #9
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This is certainly a very unusual reaction to an eInk screen. Some people don't like them, but I honestly can't recall anyone previously saying that they get physical discomfort from reading one.
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Old 10-09-2008, 10:45 AM   #10
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I used to get headaches when my bangs got too long as well. Strange but true.
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Old 10-09-2008, 10:02 PM   #11
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I used to get headaches when my bangs got too long as well. Strange but true.
Migraine?

Cheers,
Marc (rolling under the grey waves at the moment)
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Old 10-12-2008, 07:58 AM   #12
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Migraine?

Cheers,
Marc (rolling under the grey waves at the moment)
No, "just" a tension headache. Ack, hope you feel better soon!
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Old 10-12-2008, 08:54 AM   #13
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No, "just" a tension headache. Ack, hope you feel better soon!
Well, that was a couple of days ago, so it's all gone now (otherwise I'd either have offed myself, or be looking for somewhere to hide the bodies ).

I just wondered if it was migraine, because you mention your "bangs". It would not surprise me in the least if that was a trigger for a migraine. For instance, if I wear my camera around my neck for a day, about three-out-of-four times I do so I end up with a migraine - unusual, but true (I know of one other photographer who gets the same). When I had hair (I didn't lose it - it just gets clipped down to nothing now ), a long time in the wind was wearying, with the constant "tugging" at the scalp, and though such days didn't happen often, some connection with migraine days may indicate a trigger for me.

The impact on you of the page-refresh of e-ink, unusual as it is (in that, as people indicate, you don't tend to see such a physical response, though some people certainly don't like the page-refresh), made me wonder at migraine as well, as some visual stimuli can be triggers too.

One of the things about the page-refresh...I generally don't really "see" it (I won't talk for others here - just myself). Using an e-ink reader, as I get around the last line(s), I'm already pressing the page turn at about the time where I know it'll refresh just as I finish the page. Thus, because the refresh actually only takes about a second, I'm usually wandering my eye back to the top, much like when I turn the page of a pbook, without really "looking" at the refresh. If I concentrated on that refresh - by finishing the page, readying my eye position, and then pressing the page turn, thus making me wait and watch for the refresh - I suspect it would annoy.

I guess what I'm saying is, if you get the chance to borrow a reader, give it a go at relaxed reading, as you might find that you don't "see" the refresh when you're used to anticipating it.

Otherwise, there are alternatives, as you've probably found.

Cheers,
Marc
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Old 10-12-2008, 09:48 AM   #14
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Just a thought.... although its format support is limited, the Ectaco Jetbook might be a solution for those who have problems with the page refresh on eInk but still want a device to read outdoors. Its not eInk, but it is reflective LCD; so it should be readable outdoors.

Unfortunately, it only supports pdf, txt and fb2 (though I am not 100% sure about fb2 since not every website says that). If you are planning on reading mostly Project Gutenberg books, that should not be a problem; but if you want to read new stuff, you will probably have to do format conversion... and DRM stuff will not be possible unless breaking DRM is not a crime where you live.

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Old 10-12-2008, 12:49 PM   #15
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Just a thought.... although its format support is limited, the Ectaco Jetbook might be a solution for those who have problems with the page refresh on eInk but still want a device to read outdoors. Its not eInk, but it is reflective LCD; so it should be readable outdoors.

Unfortunately, it only supports pdf, txt and fb2 (though I am not 100% sure about fb2 since not every website says that). If you are planning on reading mostly Project Gutenberg books, that should not be a problem; but if you want to read new stuff, you will probably have to do format conversion... and DRM stuff will not be possible unless breaking DRM is not a crime where you live.

--
Bill
Well If you want a none-ink device you could always try a Nokia N810 which has a daylight viewable screen as well. While the screen is not that big, it should be pretty readable (about 4'').

I have the N800 the N810's older brother, and while it does not have the daylight viewable screen, it is very usable and I do use it for the occasional read, but mainly for web browsing and multemedia.

The main drawback is that while there are viewers for most types of files, no DRM protected versions are supported, so you need to strip the DRM at least, even if Format conversion may not be needed.

Also, being linux based, there is a very active developer community working on apps for it, so you can find plenty of stuff for it.
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