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Old 09-04-2008, 01:09 AM   #46
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hey, i read her books and i think they project one of the unhealthiest life views i've ever seen. and i think they're crap. but that's only my opinion.
more important, that doesn't in any way negate the amount of effort she puts into writing them, rewriting and editing them so that her work is shown as she wants it to be. it must have really hurt, seeing her work exposed in what she considers an unreleasable state. and even worse that she only gave a few copies to people she trusts, which means that someone betrayed her trust, either deliberately or by carelessness.
Yup ... it must suck to know that someone you trusted was unworthy of the trust. Even worse when you can't know for certain who it was.
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Old 09-04-2008, 01:29 AM   #47
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I loved Twilight the most and so I was really looking forward to reading Midnight Sun in full. I just got done reading the rough draft of 264 pages and loved it even more than Twilight itself. Please Stephenie, don't make us pay for someone elses carelessness!
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Old 09-04-2008, 10:05 AM   #48
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That describes most of the best programmers I've met, pshrynk. You can push and prod and cajole and threaten deadlines, and they'll shrug, browse, and play first-person shooters all day. Then they'll code for 48 hours straight.

Or, they'll threaten mutiny when you force them to work on NEW stuff rather than rewrite something that's just fine because to them, it isn't elegant enough.

Also, every great programmer I've known or trained has also been a musician, or a bonsai tree hobbyist or a pointillist or designed their own house...
Okay. Edit the first post to include creative coding. A new level of appreciation opens up. I suppose I should have been aware, knowing what little malignant bastards computers can be, that coding requires an intense right brain concentration and an upper level sensitivity ratio.
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Old 09-04-2008, 10:16 AM   #49
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Okay. Edit the first post to include creative coding. A new level of appreciation opens up. I suppose I should have been aware, knowing what little malignant bastards computers can be, that coding requires an intense right brain concentration and an upper level sensitivity ratio.
pff ! too true.
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Old 09-04-2008, 10:22 AM   #50
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I am a very good programmer. Also modest, but that's another topic. A particular language we used at a previous employer had a very powerful editor, which had a learning curve nearly as large as the language itself. I forced my programmers to learn it, because productivity went through the roof if you became proficient with it.

Well, I was promoted to VP and thus ended most of my programming. One day, though, we had to get a project done so I assigned myself a big module to code. It took me awhile to get into that "trance state", and remember how to do certain things with that editor. I struggled. Then I hit the groove. I remember hearing the door open, close, then open again, but ignored it. (I also type so fast it sounds like machine gun fire. When I'm coding, the sound of the keys almost becomes hypnotic.) So, I coded, I really don't know how long, and then turned around to find my coffee cup. All my programmers were in my office, watching, silent, slack-jawed. My lead programmer said, "see? see?" while they nodded.

I asked them what the hell was going on, and one of them said "that was beautiful".

I put that editor through it's paces, coding the next macro sequence while the previous was still running. The percussion of the keys rat-a-tat-tat... this language was one were columns mattered (like COBOL), but I ignored that until the end, where a macro sequence in the editor "reflowed" everything. It was beautiful to watch, on screen, as monolithic blocks of code suddenly danced into shape.

I'm also a visceral coder. I FEEL loops, I SEE branches. I have the habit when visualizing the next set of code to act it out with my hands or even with whistles and so on.

Anyway, I guess my point is that code itself is poetry, but the act of coding can be a performance in its own right.
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Old 09-04-2008, 10:44 AM   #51
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I am a very good programmer. Also modest, but that's another topic.
yes, that's what we love most about you : your modesty.

but : yes, exactly !!! sometimes you're in the zone and it's just you and the code. (i type really fast too but i got myself a slightly quieter keyboard so it doesn't sound so much like machine gun fire. i once had a complaint from a neighbor because my typing was keeping him up at night. <-- true.)

and the zone doesn't have to be code : it can be code, or writing, or painting, or trapeze, or any number of means of expression. it's the state of mind that counts : the language is almost secondary.
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Old 09-04-2008, 10:50 AM   #52
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Stephenie Meyer is a great storyteller. Her novels may never win prizes for the quality of the writing, but she tells a story in a very compelling way. I, personally, enjoyed them, but this thread was never started to debate the quality of her writing. There are alot of people out there who have English degrees, like she does, who end up flipping burgers because they can't channel the degree they wanted into a career that will pay the bills.

In reading her explanation of the breach of her trust on her website, I can understand where she's coming from. The person who equated it to someone licking their ice cream cone was probably right on the money. Additionally, as a mormon, Meyer likely trusts more easily than she probably should - especially given that her books are so popular. The anticipation for novels at that level of popularity can usually cause a few wallets to open to loosen the secrets. I don't know if that was the case here,but it wouldn't be the first "friend" who opened up at the loosening of purse strings...

Last edited by khourianya; 09-04-2008 at 11:03 AM.
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Old 09-04-2008, 12:25 PM   #53
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Additionally, as a mormon,


Learning this makes me even more confused as to why the character Bella made the choices she did. It explains all the "hero" vamps' behavior but Bella is baffling to me.
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Old 09-04-2008, 01:20 PM   #54
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Stephenie Meyer is a great storyteller. Her novels may never win prizes for the quality of the writing, but she tells a story in a very compelling way. I, personally, enjoyed them, but this thread was never started to debate the quality of her writing. There are alot of people out there who have English degrees, like she does, who end up flipping burgers because they can't channel the degree they wanted into a career that will pay the bills.

In reading her explanation of the breach of her trust on her website, I can understand where she's coming from. The person who equated it to someone licking their ice cream cone was probably right on the money. Additionally, as a mormon, Meyer likely trusts more easily than she probably should - especially given that her books are so popular. The anticipation for novels at that level of popularity can usually cause a few wallets to open to loosen the secrets. I don't know if that was the case here,but it wouldn't be the first "friend" who opened up at the loosening of purse strings...
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Learning this makes me even more confused as to why the character Bella made the choices she did. It explains all the "hero" vamps' behavior but Bella is baffling to me.
I've never known Mormons to be more "trusting" than others ... and I've known a LOT of Mormons. In fact, many can be rather insular and clannish, less trusting of others than of other Mormons.

Unless, perhaps the person who did the leak was another Mormon?? Well, the plot thickens.
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Old 09-04-2008, 02:31 PM   #55
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Unless, perhaps the person who did the leak was another Mormon?? Well, the plot thickens.
I guess time will tell on whether it gets discussed further from her camp.

(please, let's not turn this into a religious discussion - that was not my intent in what I said - I merely offered it as a speculative explanation)
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Old 09-04-2008, 03:48 PM   #56
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I guess time will tell on whether it gets discussed further from her camp.

(please, let's not turn this into a religious discussion - that was not my intent in what I said - I merely offered it as a speculative explanation)
Well, it was a speculative explanation that wouldn't fit with most of the Mormons I know (and happen to like very much, by the way).

Sometimes time tells ... and sometimes it keeps secrets pretty much forever.
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Old 09-04-2008, 03:59 PM   #57
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Well, it was a speculative explanation that wouldn't fit with most of the Mormons I know (and happen to like very much, by the way).

Sometimes time tells ... and sometimes it keeps secrets pretty much forever.
Ain't that the truth.

another possible explanation (that could maybe be more likely) could be that she is still pretty young for the amount of success she is experiencing. She's really only like 35 years old and has 5 books on current bestseller lists. That's gotta mean a whole lot of pressure and a whole lot of false friends that accompany that kind of success...

and now I am off to read the leaked manuscript......By the time she starts back up on it and it's edited and published, this one will seem like a completely different book!

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Old 09-04-2008, 04:43 PM   #58
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I'm also a visceral coder. I FEEL loops, I SEE branches. I have the habit when visualizing the next set of code to act it out with my hands or even with whistles and so on.
This, I can understand. I had a dream about recursion once... but I'm not a "very good" coder, I have to admit. I can do it, and occasionally I do have those flashes of insight, but I'm not fast enough to be considered "good." My strengths lie more in listening to people who are non-technical ramble on for a bit about what they want, and translating that into an actual functional spec (or even a technical spec) that someone who is a fast coder can work from.
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Old 09-04-2008, 04:52 PM   #59
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Stephanie Meyer stops work on 'Midnight Sun'
Oh, thank god. It's frightening to think how close we were to having another one of that woman's books out on the market. Whoever put that manuscript on the net deserves a medal.
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Old 09-04-2008, 05:02 PM   #60
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I think it's a little bit of a false argument to say 'if you think she's a crap writer, go and do it yourself'. The ability to judge writing quality is to some extent independent of the ability to write - and much of the ability to get published has less to do with writing ability than it does to do with marketing, connections and sheer luck.

I do think she's an awful writer myself, and that's only having read bits and pieces.

But more central to this thread - I'm with the people who think this whole thing suspicious and her reaction is bizarre. The only way it could have been leaked is if somebody from the publishing company (or a trusted friend that she would send a draft too) did so. So the fact that she's blaming fans for it is really funny.
Can you tel the difference between being an awful writer and a write you just don't happen to care for? I recently gave up on reading Jacqueline Carey. I don't think she's a poor writer. I just think they style of storytelling used in her series did not fit well with me. So is it that you think she is awful or just not a good fit with what you care to read?

I do think it had to be someone close to Meyer who had to either leaked the draft or was sloppy enough to allow it to be stolen.
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