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Old 09-03-2008, 01:26 PM   #16
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Daffy, I refuse to believe that someone as intelligent as you can possibly be jealous of a no talent, brainless, gutter mentality whore like Paris Hilton who has nothing to offer except her name, and money.
Thank you for the kind words. I'm not really jealous of Paris herself, just of her ability to make money by doing nothing. I'm not a party or fashion person, so the way she gets her money is of no interest to me.

I just want enough fortune to move to the Caribbean and run a dive boat (even though I can't dive) and not have to worry about money again.
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Old 09-03-2008, 02:15 PM   #17
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I think hearing these types of comments depends on the circles you travel in. Actors, celebrities (can you say Paris Hilton... makes a lot of money but what is her talent... and yes I'm jealous) and I'm sure some sports figures get the same kinds of comments.
Sometimes it is just the luck of the draw so to speak. Anyway I consider myself ultra-ultra-lucky just for having a regular life in 21th century USA after living 21 years in one the worst hellholes on the wrong side of the Iron Curtain.

And overall, a bit of reading of good, *realistic* historical fiction would make appreciate more the life of today for people who were fortunate to be born here.

I am now reading an arc of Drood by D. Simmons about the last 5 years of C. Dickens after the train accident that turned his life upside-down, as told by friend and secret jealous rival Wilkie Collins and the description of London 1865 which was the capital of civilization by and large at the time is something that should be read to see how lucky we are today.

Think of 20000 pounds of horse manure daily piling up on the banks of Thames just for starters, almost everyone consuming diluted opium as painkiller, dead newborns piling up here and there, and so on...

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Old 09-03-2008, 02:27 PM   #18
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I'm not really jealous of Paris herself, just of her ability to make money by doing nothing.
I agree. I would also like to be at the point where I make more money per month on residuals and interest and such (non labor tied income) than I can spend in the same month.

BOb
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Old 09-03-2008, 02:37 PM   #19
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If anyone thinks that a popular writer that found an audience that wants his/her work in large numbers is writing *crap*, they are more than welcome to try and do it too and get rich.
Why do you assume that it is easy to write crap that sells?
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Old 09-03-2008, 02:39 PM   #20
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I don't find it bizarre that she reacted this way. Artistic people have a much higher reactivity to stressors than those who don't create for a living.
Why? And isn't it hard to finds people nowadays that do not create for a living? I have not noticed that computer programmers (who create for a living) has a higher reactivity to stressors.
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Old 09-03-2008, 02:56 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by daffy4u View Post
Thank you for the kind words. I'm not really jealous of Paris herself, just of her ability to make money by doing nothing. I'm not a party or fashion person, so the way she gets her money is of no interest to me.

I just want enough fortune to move to the Caribbean and run a dive boat (even though I can't dive) and not have to worry about money again.

See? I said you were intelligent! Good Karma to you and I hope someday you can do what you want! I understand the "not having to worry about money again" feeling. But I am ANGRY that she profits by her disgusting parasitic lifestyle. I'm angry that so many today look up to the likes of her, and want to actually BE like her. Someday I'm hoping people will grow up, look around, and realize that the REAL heroes are those who live their life day by day, the teachers, the cop on the street, the parents working by day and teaching their kids the right way to live. The kids who go thru school not getting into trouble. Not the celebrities/sports figures whose only accomplishment is out of control drinking, drugging and sleeping around.
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Old 09-03-2008, 03:07 PM   #22
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See? I said you were intelligent! Good Karma to you and I hope someday you can do what you want! I understand the "not having to worry about money again" feeling. But I am ANGRY that she profits by her disgusting parasitic lifestyle. I'm angry that so many today look up to the likes of her, and want to actually BE like her. Someday I'm hoping people will grow up, look around, and realize that the REAL heroes are those who live their life day by day, the teachers, the cop on the street, the parents working by day and teaching their kids the right way to live. The kids who go thru school not getting into trouble. Not the celebrities/sports figures whose only accomplishment is out of control drinking, drugging and sleeping around.
While I agree with your general point about Paris, how are your "real heroes" any different? They just exist, die, and are forgotten. Kids who never get into trouble are kids who stay within the "safe" boundaries and will never discover anything new or have an original thought. "the right way to live" seems relative to the time and place you grow up in.

Heroes break rules sometimes. Sometimes they break whole systems. So again, while I agree with your statements about near-worship of vapid nobodies whose only claim to fame is inherited cash and a general lack of inhibitions, I don't know about your yardstick for heroism.
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Old 09-03-2008, 03:10 PM   #23
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Hmmm ... well, people like Paris Hilton, or A-Rod (who ever that is), do not fulfill a "need" for me, so I don't happen to contribute to whatever money it is they make. I don't see them as being particularly talented, because I don't happen to think of whatever it is they do as worthwhile. That's not sour grapes ... I just find it quite easy to live a fulfilled life without bothering with professional do nothings. I do appreciate great acting in a well written film, and will gladly donate time and money to any cause that George Clooney thinks could use it.

As for whether this Meyer person can write. I have no idea. I've never read one of her books, but based on comments from people whose opinions I respect, I would tend to think that I would probably not enjoy them. So, I can honestly say that if she chooses to stop writing ... even completely ... it's not going to impact much on my life.

I do remember reading some statistics that indicated that artistically creative people are more prone to over reaction to stressors. However, I do not think that computer programming is considered artistically creative, although the programmer certainly does create something by his/her efforts. As I recall the statistics tended to demonstrate that there is such a creature as the otherwise stereotypical "high strung artist." Or ... perhaps it really has more to do with people who are otherwise high strung being attracted to the creative arts.

As for Ms. Hilton ... there are always going to be people who are famous for being famous and who otherwise contribute nothing much at all to history, culture, or anywhere at all. After they are burnt out, they tend to just fade away unless they pop up on some idiotic game or reality show about no talent has beens. Mention one of them now, and most people will go "Who???" But, they were the Paris Hiltons of their generation.

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Old 09-03-2008, 03:20 PM   #24
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While I agree with your general point about Paris, how are your "real heroes" any different? They just exist, die, and are forgotten. Kids who never get into trouble are kids who stay within the "safe" boundaries and will never discover anything new or have an original thought. "the right way to live" seems relative to the time and place you grow up in.

Heroes break rules sometimes. Sometimes they break whole systems. So again, while I agree with your statements about near-worship of vapid nobodies whose only claim to fame is inherited cash and a general lack of inhibitions, I don't know about your yardstick for heroism.
Hmmm .... so a lot of the scientists that I think of as heroes, like say Newton, Einstein, Hubble, Tyson, Hawking ... because they never got into trouble as children, and generally lived within societies rules, then all of their thinking is unoriginal?? None of them ever discovered something??

I too admire the everyday heroes ... and there are a lot of them out there. For me, it's not so much the living the everyday life that makes them a hero to me ... it's the extraordinary things they do to help their community or the world at large that makes them heroes (to me).

But, I don't see that it is somehow impossible to live life as a decent human being in most societies and not have an original thought or make a great discovery. That would be really sad if it were true.
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Old 09-03-2008, 03:23 PM   #25
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Hmmm .... so a lot of the scientists that I think of as heroes, like say Newton, Einstein, Hubble, Tyson, Hawking ... because they never got into trouble as children, and generally lived within societies rules, then all of their thinking is unoriginal?? None of them ever discovered something??
Newton was a total dick. No, really. Additionally, he dabbled in alchemy and lord knows what else, as was the fashion at the time. He was extremely unconventional. Einstein was not a dick (I think, I haven't read a biography but wasn't there something about his marriage or wife?), but at least as unconventional. Hawking, I don't know. Did he have much choice in the matter? You could also say that almost everything about him is unconventional. I know lots of Tysons (?Dyson? given the list?), I do not know which one you are referring to.

They greatly advanced human knowledge, but they were not "regular joes on the street". It takes a certain mindset to venture off into the unknown, and neatly obeying all the rules does not fit.

All personal opinion of course.

Last edited by acidzebra; 09-03-2008 at 03:43 PM.
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Old 09-03-2008, 03:50 PM   #26
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As both a programmer and an artist (poetry, drawing, musician) I can say that I consider programming an artistic endeavor. Code is poetry.
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Old 09-03-2008, 04:19 PM   #27
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As both a programmer and an artist (poetry, drawing, musician) I can say that I consider programming an artistic endeavor. Code is poetry.
As a programmer/musician, I definitely agree. It has elements of both an art and a science. So does brewing (my other hobby).
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Old 09-03-2008, 04:27 PM   #28
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It takes a certain mindset to venture off into the unknown, and neatly obeying all the rules does not fit.

All personal opinion of course.
i agree. if you simply follow the rules and do what everyone else does and what is expected of you, you might have an interesting idea now and then and even create something agreeable but you won't be able to develop any true GENIUS ideas because they require taking an unconventional perspective : "what ? the world is NOT the center of the universe, you say ???" despicable heretic, or genius ?

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As both a programmer and an artist (poetry, drawing, musician) I can say that I consider programming an artistic endeavor. Code is poetry.
completely true. someone who writes elegant code is trying to achieve the same grace and balance of syntaxe and vocabulary as someone writing a poem. i have utmost respect for developpers. they are artists just as much as designers. and some more so. take a look at the works of John Maeda for a stunning example. wiki article about him : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Maeda
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Old 09-03-2008, 04:37 PM   #29
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Why do you assume that it is easy to write crap that sells?
Actually that's exactly my point - Ms. Meyer writes something that resonates with millions of people that they are willing to spend their money to read it. That most of those people happen to be of different demographic than me, it's neither here nor there...

If you want to call that *crap* it's your prerogative of course, but for me that becomes a semantically empty word.

I just do not get why people believe that any *real*, *good*, *whatever positive quality* book has to be for them too, while people generally accept that lots of other things appreciated by large segments of society - *movies and movie stars*, *sports*, *video games* are not for them.

I see these kind of comments - this book is *junk*, *crap* whatever from people who clearly are not the book intended audience, while I usually see this movie, this TV series or that game does not interest me from the same kind of people who are not that particular form of entertainment target audience.
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Old 09-03-2008, 04:54 PM   #30
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Why? And isn't it hard to finds people nowadays that do not create for a living? I have not noticed that computer programmers (who create for a living) has a higher reactivity to stressors.
Hmmm... I think that I am trying to make a distinction based on the more traditional arts endeavors, rather than creating things like code. I know that code writers quite frequently are doing artisically slanted things, but I was more talking about the brain types who have to write, draw, perform, compose, etc or they have a build ou pf creative energy that just has to be released. Think Andy Warhol, who was always drawing, or writing, or photographing, or drinking to excess. No middle switches, just on or off. Your computer programmer in your example would be more apt to create code for a while, but then would not HAVE to keep going, no matter what.

Of course, a programmer who can't stop coding no matter what, would be in the same realm as the creative types I am talking about.

This is, I guess, the upper one to two standard deviation creative brain types that I am talking about.
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