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Old 08-24-2008, 11:28 AM   #1
Dr. Drib
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What do you prefer: Epub or Adobe Digital Editions?

Epub or Adobe Digital Editions: My biased opinion (and I am unanimous in that)

Epub:

1) I find there's too much inconsistency with this format; in fact, some of the files simply aren't put together correctly so reading them on the Sony Reader isn't even possible until/and unless an editor (or compiler decides to fix them. (See Proust's Remembrance of Things Past from Feedbooks.)

2) I don't like left justified margins. It seems counter-intuitive. I like left and right justified margins.

3) The Small font size, for me, is just a tad too small. However, going to Medium size the font is too bulky looking.


Adobe Digital Editions:

1) They always seem to me to look better on the Reader, perhaps because there seems to be a shared consistency with appearance.

2) I like the font size when it's on Small, which is exactly perfect for my tastes.

3) The files are, of course, larger but with the memory that the Reader has this really isn't a problem for me.


This, then, is my opinion. Your opinion may differ. (See: I even underlined "Your" so you won't feel slighted).

Thanks,
Don
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Old 08-24-2008, 11:32 AM   #2
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Just a small point.

"ePub" is a file format.

"Digital Editions" is a software package which reads both ePub and PDF formats.

I think you mean to compare the ePub formated books to PDF format. Of course, it depends on how well each file was made too. ePub is pretty new and folks are just learning it. Also, I assume the rendering will improve as updates come out.

BOb
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Old 08-24-2008, 11:34 AM   #3
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Yes, that's true about PDF, as you say. I meant to say the ePub formatted books and the PDF file format.

Last edited by Dr. Drib; 08-24-2008 at 11:52 AM. Reason: For my good friend Harry.
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Old 08-24-2008, 11:36 AM   #4
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Repeat after me:

PDF is not an eBook format.
PDF is not an eBook format.
PDF is not an eBook format.
.....

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Old 08-24-2008, 11:50 AM   #5
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Ok, Harry:

PDF is not an Ebook format. PDF is not an Ebook format. PDF is not an Ebook format. PDF is not an Ebook format. PDF is not an Ebook format. PDF is not an Ebook format. PDF is not an Ebook format. PDF is not an Ebook format. PDF is not an Ebook format. PDF is not an Ebook format. PDF is not an Ebook format. PDF is not an Ebook format. PDF is not an Ebook format. PDF is not an Ebook format. PDF is not an Ebook format. PDF is not an Ebook format.
PDF is not an Ebook format. PDF is not an Ebook format. PDF is not an Ebook format. PDF is not an Ebook format. PDF is not an Ebook format. PDF is not an Ebook format. PDF is not an Ebook format. PDF is not an Ebook format. PDF is not an Ebook format. PDF is not an Ebook format. PDF is not an Ebook format. PDF is not an Ebook format. PDF is not an Ebook format. PDF is not an Ebook format. PDF is not an Ebook format. PDF is not an Ebook format. PDF is not an Ebook format. PDF is not an Ebook format. PDF is not an Ebook format. PDF is not an Ebook format. PDF is not an Ebook format. PDF is not an Ebook format. PDF is not an Ebook format. PDF is not an Ebook format. PDF is not an Ebook format. PDF is not an Ebook format. PDF is not an Ebook format. PDF is not an Ebook format. PDF is not an Ebook format. PDF is not an Ebook format. PDF is not an Ebook format. PDF is not an Ebook format.
PDF is not an Ebook format. PDF is not an Ebook format. PDF is not an Ebook format. PDF is not an Ebook format. PDF is not an Ebook format. PDF is not an Ebook format. PDF is not an Ebook format. PDF is not an Ebook format. PDF is not an Ebook format. PDF is not an Ebook format. PDF is not an Ebook format. PDF is not an Ebook format. PDF is not an Ebook format. PDF is not an Ebook format. PDF is not an Ebook format. PDF is not an Ebook format. PDF is not an Ebook format. PDF is not an Ebook format. PDF is not an Ebook format. PDF is not an Ebook format. PDF is not an Ebook format. PDF is not an Ebook format. PDF is not an Ebook format. PDF is not an Ebook format. PDF is not an Ebook format. PDF is not an Ebook format. PDF is not an Ebook format. PDF is not an Ebook format. PDF is not an Ebook format. PDF is not an Ebook format. PDF is not an Ebook format. PDF is not an Ebook format.
PDF is not an Ebook format. PDF is not an Ebook format. PDF is not an Ebook format. PDF is not an Ebook format. PDF is not an Ebook format. PDF is not an Ebook format. PDF is not an Ebook format. PDF is not an Ebook format. PDF is not an Ebook format. PDF is not an Ebook format. PDF is not an Ebook format. PDF is not an Ebook format. PDF is not an Ebook format. PDF is not an Ebook format. PDF is not an Ebook format. PDF is not an Ebook format. PDF is not an Ebook format. PDF is not an Ebook format. PDF is not an Ebook format. PDF is not an Ebook format.

I'm firmly chastised.


Don
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Old 08-24-2008, 01:36 PM   #6
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I'm not chastising you, Don, just wondering why, in the name of Zeus, you would want to read PDF books, with all their scaling problems, when you have the hugely better BBeB format available to you?
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Old 08-24-2008, 02:09 PM   #7
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You're confusing the file format with the reading system.
All the books on Feedbooks are 100% ePub compliant, it's the reading system (Digital Editions) that decided to limit the size of the flows, not the official specs. For Proust, this would mean, adding a page break in the middle of the text where there should be none. That's why, although I've decided to use multiple flows, I'm not ADDING page breaks simply for DE yet. Those same files work with Stanza and FBReader.

Left and right margins can be specified in the file, I don't see how this is connected to either ePub or DE.

The size of the small font is a decision from Adobe/Sony.
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Old 08-24-2008, 02:15 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HarryT View Post
I'm not chastising you, Don, just wondering why, in the name of Zeus, you would want to read PDF books, with all their scaling problems, when you have the hugely better BBeB format available to you?
BBeb is always my favorite. I was considering the newer alternatives. Yes, BBeb is by far my favorite of the three.

Don
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Old 08-24-2008, 02:26 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hadrien View Post
You're confusing the file format with the reading system.
All the books on Feedbooks are 100% ePub compliant, it's the reading system (Digital Editions) that decided to limit the size of the flows, not the official specs. For Proust, this would mean, adding a page break in the middle of the text where there should be none. That's why, although I've decided to use multiple flows, I'm not ADDING page breaks simply for DE yet. Those same files work with Stanza and FBReader.

Left and right margins can be specified in the file, I don't see how this is connected to either ePub or DE.

The size of the small font is a decision from Adobe/Sony.

My comments were simply on the reading experience in relation to these two systems. Yes, I misnamed the format with reading system.

Nevertheless, I am comparing the reading experience of these two and what they are capable of doing, and regarding my personal preferences for these two reading experiences.

It seems to me that if ePub must be compromized to enjoy the reading experience, then the reading experience -- overall - is compromized. How's that for a tautology!

Don
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Old 08-24-2008, 02:47 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Drib View Post
Nevertheless, I am comparing the reading experience of these two and what they are capable of doing, and regarding my personal preferences for these two reading experiences.

It seems to me that if ePub must be compromized to enjoy the reading experience, then the reading experience -- overall - is compromized. How's that for a tautology!

Don
The reading experience is mostly on the reading system side here, not the format. As a format, ePub is capable of providing a better experience than LRF with full support for CSS (better presentation), SVG (to display illustrations that can "reflow"), a real TOC (multiple levels of entries) and a very flexible framework (ePub is fairly easy to extend through OPF).

DE and ePub compliant reading system in general are still in a very early stage and none of the current one fully support ePub (there's still a few CSS elements missing in DE for example).
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Old 08-24-2008, 03:12 PM   #11
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Very well, since I can't even open any ePub Proust titles on my Sony Reader to read, then the "reading system side" is at fault for not allowing me to do so.

No matter that "ePub is capable of providing a better experience than LRF" -- I am still unable to open an ePub Proust title on my Sony Reader and enjoying a sublime reading experience that only Proust can provide. The format is -- in my opinion - flawed for not allowing me to read some titles in that format, even though they have been formatted in that format!

Don

NOTE: The Proust titles DO open on the computer. It is my opinion, however, that this somewhat defeats the purpose of owning a Sony Reader. I've downloaded your "Sony Reader" files and Proust looks wonderful. Thank you for those great-looking "books."

Last edited by Dr. Drib; 08-24-2008 at 03:14 PM. Reason: edited to keep myself honest
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Old 08-24-2008, 03:31 PM   #12
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If a document created with, for example, Microsoft Word oder OpenOffice Writer and the document looks really bad that is not the fault of either word processing software.

If that EPUB Proust title is not formatted to your liking, then the source of that evil is the party who did the format with whatever tools they were using. It seems that EPUB is toolwise still in its infancy. But what I like about it is that you can work with a bare minimum of tools (text editor and compression software) to create a document. No specialized tools or libraries are required, although I am sure they will appear in a short while to make content creation an conversion more accessible than it is today.
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Old 08-24-2008, 07:44 PM   #13
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Quote:
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If that EPUB Proust title is not formatted to your liking, then the source of that evil is the party who did the format with whatever tools they were using. It seems that EPUB is toolwise still in its infancy. But what I like about it is that you can work with a bare minimum of tools (text editor and compression software) to create a document. No specialized tools or libraries are required, although I am sure they will appear in a short while to make content creation an conversion more accessible than it is today.
No, in this case, the problem is different: in their best practice guide, Adobe decided to use a certain set of rules that are not in the ePub specs. They only allow XML flows that are <= 300k. The problem with Proust is that there's no chapters, no page breaks etc... Because of this, you basically have 2 choices:
- adding page breaks that are not in the book to create multiple XML flows
- keeping the original formatting
I decided for the moment to keep the original formatting. What would be necessary in this case, is not an editor to FIX the formatting or different tools, you would have to MODIFY the text.
I wrote a blog post about this by the way, and I consider that it's currently the worse problem with the mobile edition of DE: http://blog.feedbooks.com/?p=74

Don, the Sony Reader link is for the PDF version on Feedbooks. I still use PDF files myself on the PRS-505: I like hyphenation, using a different font than the embedded one and I don't need to change the size on the device itself once I've found the right size.
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Old 08-24-2008, 09:51 PM   #14
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As file formats that I can read on my Sony Reader, I agree with all of you:

- Sony's proprietary format renders very nicely but DRM'd BBeb ebooks are only sold by Sony and so I want it to eventually disappear so we can have far more content available for us to buy than Sony seems to be willing to sell.

- Adobe DE is pretty nice (not as nice as Mobipocket, in my opinion) on my computer and it's tolerable on my Reader using the current firmware. But if the firmware doesn't improve, that would be very bad. I would hate to have to always read poorly formatted ebooks on my Reader this way.

- To me, ePub seems "not ready for prime time". Maybe a great idea. We'll see.
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Old 08-24-2008, 11:53 PM   #15
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I guess I'm a heretic, but my favorite format isn't lrf or epub, but mobi amd html. Once tools start appearing for epub, I'll expect to change my mind. I have having to keep two libraries, one for the 505 and one for the Nokia.

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