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Old 06-30-2008, 12:34 AM   #16
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AZW could easily implement the image zoom feature already built into Mobipocket book reader and already available for books in the topaz structure. It is stupid not to. I do like the automatic doubling feature. That was a nice touch but there should be zoom as well.

Dale
Yes, but this requires actual rendering/dithering, whereas my idea is trivial to implement if you have access to the frame buffer. Anyway, if we got that far we could certainly do it. The code is probably already in the Java library.

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Old 06-30-2008, 01:24 AM   #17
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Yes, but this requires actual rendering/dithering, whereas my idea is trivial to implement if you have access to the frame buffer. Anyway, if we got that far we could certainly do it. The code is probably already in the Java library.

Dave E
Yes, but your idea rerenders the small rendering itself likely through simple pixel replication on an image that is already poor resolution. It may be better than what is there now but Amazon should be encouraged to support the original method that they disabled or broke when they built the product. Some images are big in the file and then shrunk for display. The zoom feature would not just pixel replicate but would use the larger image itself to render a better resolution picture. I am not suggesting your idea is not workable but rather that some users should request that they fix the feature that should already be in the product. Just a thought.

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Old 06-30-2008, 03:33 AM   #18
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It's interesting to note that, to the best of my knowledge, no eInk implementation of the Mobi Reader implements the "image mode" found on Windows/Win CE/Palm versions of the reader. I wonder if this is due to perceived shortcomings of eInk displays (slow refresh rate, perhaps?) or if there's some other reason for it?
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Old 06-30-2008, 08:11 AM   #19
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I
And again, why do you think reaching in and grabbing the screen contents isn't a violation of the DRM system? Someone could use the hot key code you mentioned to feed "Next Page" keys into the Kindle book viewer app and then scarf down all the screens for a book onto a storage card. A bit of OCR and poof: DRM free content.
So what? You can use a digital camera also for producing imaged of a Kindle book or a paper book. You can also retype the book.
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Old 06-30-2008, 10:59 AM   #20
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It's interesting to note that, to the best of my knowledge, no eInk implementation of the Mobi Reader implements the "image mode" found on Windows/Win CE/Palm versions of the reader.
I wonder if the Blackberry version has this option, since it is also based on the Java reader.
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Old 06-30-2008, 12:03 PM   #21
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It's interesting to note that, to the best of my knowledge, no eInk implementation of the Mobi Reader implements the "image mode" found on Windows/Win CE/Palm versions of the reader. I wonder if this is due to perceived shortcomings of eInk displays (slow refresh rate, perhaps?) or if there's some other reason for it?
Since the Kindle already has it for Topaz is should, could have it for standard AZW files. Do you think Kindle implementation is via Java? I am not sure but even if it is there is no reason I can think up for that lack of image mode.

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Old 06-30-2008, 12:12 PM   #22
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Yes, but your idea rerenders the small rendering itself likely through simple pixel replication on an image that is already poor resolution. It may be better than what is there now but Amazon should be encouraged to support the original method that they disabled or broke when they built the product. Some images are big in the file and then shrunk for display. The zoom feature would not just pixel replicate but would use the larger image itself to render a better resolution picture. I am not suggesting your idea is not workable but rather that some users should request that they fix the feature that should already be in the product. Just a thought.

Dale
I heartily agree with you that Amazon should fix the software and provide this feature. As far as I know, an inline image can be zoomed to full screen size on the Kindle (see Kindle's Sort of "Zoom" Feature). But it cannot be zoomed larger than full screen size.

Most of the unreadable images I run across are already full screen size. My idea is just a hack to get around the problem. Obviously the resolution of the original image (grabbed from the framebuffer in my scenario) is a serious limitation.

I think whatever piece of code handles the <alt><Shift>G screenshot feature would be a good place to start. It obviously accesses the frame buffer directly.

Igor, are you out there? Did you look at this with JAD?

Dave E

Last edited by dre95060; 06-30-2008 at 12:30 PM.
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Old 06-30-2008, 11:30 PM   #23
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So what? You can use a digital camera also for producing imaged of a Kindle book or a paper book. You can also retype the book.
Sure you could, if you have hours to take the pictures and clean up the OCR.

But by using the hot key tool you wind up with files on a storage card ready to feed into your favorite OCR tool in minutes. Being nice crisp perfectly base lined text the OCR output is 100% accurate with no touch up required.

I believe content providers call that "way too easy to rip us off".
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Old 07-01-2008, 12:03 AM   #24
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Igor, are you out there? Did you look at this with JAD?
Daddy-O obviously didn't understand the license he agreed to when he broke the seal and fired up his Kindle for the first time.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/custom...deId=200144530

In particular....

No Reverse Engineering, Decompilation, Disassembly or Circumvention. You may not, and you will not encourage, assist or authorize any other person to, modify, reverse engineer, decompile or disassemble the Device or the Software, whether in whole or in part, create any derivative works from or of the Software, or bypass, modify, defeat or tamper with or circumvent any of the functions or protections of the Device or Software or any mechanisms operatively linked to the Software, including, but not limited to, augmenting or substituting any digital rights management functionality of the Device or Software.

And this part ....

Termination. Your rights under this Agreement will automatically terminate without notice from Amazon if you fail to comply with any term of this Agreement. In case of such termination, you must cease all use of the Software and Amazon may immediately revoke your access to the Service or to Digital Content without notice to you and without refund of any fees. Amazon's failure to insist upon or enforce your strict compliance with this Agreement will not constitute a waiver of any of its rights.

Daddy-O is already in violation of the License and Terms of Use. But since he's got a big ol' swingin' pair he isn't afraid if anyone sends this thread into the Amazon legal department to see if his offering a bounty is more than they can stomach right?
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Old 07-01-2008, 04:02 AM   #25
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scotty1024, what is your problem? Why are you so worried about the license agreement and whether or not other people respect it?

This is a typical license agreement and you find it for virtually any other product.

Daddy-O hasn't done anything wrong; it's not illegal to ask questions; it's not illegal to build software for a device that is based on Linux if the code doesn't use any proprietary code.

I don't like how you are accusing forum members here of "violating" laws. If you are so much into accusing people, why don't you contact the guys from Bookeen and ask them to release the Linux sources for their e-reader?
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Old 07-01-2008, 08:57 AM   #26
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Keep the discussion civil please, chaps. Disagreeing with someone's viewpoint is fine. Making personal attacks is not.

Thanks!

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Old 07-01-2008, 10:51 AM   #27
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I like being able to easily purchase fresh content in a timely manner especially on or close to the day the content is published on paper.

The music industry didn't go DRM-less because someone hacked the DRM and broke it free. They've started going DRM-less because it increases sales and the world didn't stop rotating. Their content gets played over and over and over again and people want to buy it.

Book publishers though know their content gets used once. If they're really fortunate maybe they have a classic and people will want to read it more than once. They're scared to death of their content getting handed around for free to get read that once. In their hard scrabble business too much free can mean the difference between a title being barely profitable and being a loser.

If someone creates an easy to use dumper that lets people easily dump content the platform is broken. End result: no more content.

Hacking skills don't come with no responsibilities. And as I've pointed out above in this thread: Amazon has very clearly staked out a position and they've delivered on their end. Does anyone here honestly think that if enough people ask for it Amazon won't add a pan and zoom option for images??? We need to risk destroying the platform to add a feature Amazon clearly could add themselves?

Over in the Experimental section of the Kindle they ask people to send them ideas to their feedback email address on how to improve the platform. Do we know if Dave really even tried?

Where's his email posted to show what evil bastards Amazon are for ignoring him?

If Dave was over here asking folks to email Amazon to request a magnifier heck even I'd pop off an email to support the effort. Why aren't we giving them a chance to prove their evil intent before we pick up the pitch forks and storm the castle walls?

We certainly gave irex every chance to show their true colors before we hacked that platform every which way. And they didn't even (still haven't) bring any content to the table the way Amazon has very much done. Amazon has fought the book content providers like a Tiger and gotten us what we want. Now we're supposed to use our hacking skills to pay them back how and for what cause du jour?
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Old 07-01-2008, 11:15 AM   #28
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The music industry didn't go DRM-less because someone hacked the DRM and broke it free. They've started going DRM-less because it increases sales and the world didn't stop rotating.
Do we need to restart the DRM-discussion here?
Because I absolutely dont agree with you (you seem to believe that DRM could be a good thing, which it cannot be), but I really dont want to do that OT-discussion here.
So.. If you want that discussion, start a new DRM-thread or restart an old one and I will be there.

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Book publishers though know their content gets used once.
Which is quite simply not true, people have demonstrated that often enough on this board.

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Hacking skills don't come with no responsibilities.
Sigh. With great power comes great responsibility, yay for Spiderman. But: Where is Amazons responsibility?

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We need to risk destroying the platform to add a feature Amazon clearly could add themselves?
You are greatly overrating your own importance. It is not that easy to destroy a platform - for every single DRM-mechanism on the normal market you can name, there already IS a circumvention mechanism. Still the market is functional.
What does this tell you? The possibility to make screenshots and reOCR them is not dangerous to Amazon. There are easier ways to get to the content.

If I buy a device I am going to use it the way I want to. There is no law stopping me from that.
You dont have to develop for a specific device, your decision. But leave others do their work without annoying them.

I personally dont like the idea of that magnifier too much (technical reasons) and I'd agree that it would be much better to simply get Amazon to release a "zoom-mechanism" and/or a nice image-viewer. And as I dont own a Kindle, I wont start developing for it. But: If somebody wants to implement said viewer: My best wishes.
I dont know (and frankly dont care) about the legal situation (would Amazon be allowed to restrict the usage or steal your bought products? In Germany I wouldnt think so, in the US I dont know), so you have to take care of that.
But again: if they fear a mechanism like that to circumvent DRM - apparently they would be able to stop it from accessing their books, so whats the big deal?
And if a mechanism as simple as that one could crush their whole marketing ... They didnt deserve it better.


Quote:
Over in the Experimental section of the Kindle they ask people to send them ideas to their feedback email address on how to improve the platform. Do we know if Dave really even tried?
Your getting personal without reason and you know it.
Still I agree - mass-mailing Amazon to implement that feature would probably be a better path.

Quote:
Where's his email posted to show what evil bastards Amazon are for ignoring him?
If he'd posted one it wouldnt have proved shit (excuse my language).
1) The email could be forged
2) You wouldnt know if Amazon reacted. How could he prove not getting a response?
And even that response-mail could have been forged.
Heck, I could just write a fictional email-discussion with Amazon supporting his claim without breaking a sweat.

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Why aren't we giving them a chance to prove their evil intent before we pick up the pitch forks and storm the castle walls?
I agree.

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Amazon has fought the book content providers like a Tiger and gotten us what we want.
Your getting money from Amazon?
Because you sound like you do - they fought (quite unfair) to get the most money.

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Now we're supposed to use our hacking skills to pay them back how and for what cause du jour?
First: Stop talking about hacking. Simply implementing a mechanism like that is not hacking.
Second: I see NOTHING evil in the mechanism asked for. The screenshot-mechanism has been implemented by AMAZON. The only thing added would be the "zoom parts of the screenshot". And dont restart giving that "breaks DRM"-crap. Its bullshit and you know it. BTW: Noone asked for a "dump screenshots to the card of every single page".
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Old 07-01-2008, 11:44 AM   #29
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scotty1024, what is your problem? Are you by any chance employeed by Amazon?
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Old 07-02-2008, 02:19 AM   #30
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Obviously I did send such a request to Amazon. I did finally receive a reply. It was a form letter that did not do anything to resolve the problem. Basically a thank you note. I suspect many thousands of people want the same feature. In any case, I would prefer to discuss solving the problem rather than dealing with one person's lay legal opinions and rants. I have no fear of Amazon. I think it's a great company and I have some friends among the founders. If someone fixed this bug (and it is a bug) I'm pretty sure Amazon would be grateful for the increased customer satisfaction and resultant increase in sales.

Scotty, I never said you had no balls. I said you should use the ones you have once in awhile. What I meant by this is that you should stop worrying about what Amazon is going to do to you and show some courage. Try to make the world a better place for people around you instead of resorting to name calling and negativity. I'm sure Amazon would hire Igor in a nanosecond--even though he (gasp!)--violated the Kindle Terms of Service Agreement! I know I would.

Regards,

Dave E

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