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Old 06-10-2008, 01:09 PM   #16
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You can save a lot of time by skipping the information that is in "text message" mode (all lower case, lots of abbreviations), improper grammar (e.g. loose instead of lose), and misspellings. Since those errors scream IGNORANCE, why would anyone want to read them?
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Old 06-10-2008, 01:14 PM   #17
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Thank you Steven, did you by any chance take offense?
Naw... we're good!
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Old 06-10-2008, 01:38 PM   #18
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I use Google for many searches, and It's quicker to find definitions and references. But these days I get easily bored with long descriptions. I've never got used to reading on a PC screen despite using the damn things for donkey's years...
[Does anyone use a mimic of Google, called Blackle.Com ?]
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Old 06-10-2008, 04:36 PM   #19
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Interesting, you regret having to go to libraries and spend hours looking up data, when you could be spending that time using the data to create something new?
Well, this might be very subjective, but in my case, I feel I can accomplish more and better research in a library rather than on Google. In fact, whenever I want to be productive in the sense of "creating something new" , I need to stay away from the Internet to avoid procrastination and distraction. What I usually do is do some preliminary research online, write down and print out my findings, and then go to the next library or a nice cafe to do my work.
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Old 06-10-2008, 04:49 PM   #20
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Well, this might be very subjective, but in my case, I feel I can accomplish more and better research in a library rather than on Google. In fact, whenever I want to be productive in the sense of "creating something new" , I need to stay away from the Internet to avoid procrastination and distraction. What I usually do is do some preliminary research online, write down and print out my findings, and then go to the next library or a nice cafe to do my work.
Library, ah now, that's a reason why the internet could be taking over - the internet is convenient - despite often filled with trash...
It would take me hours to get to my nearest library...
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Old 06-10-2008, 05:05 PM   #21
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Well, this might be very subjective, but in my case, I feel I can accomplish more and better research in a library rather than on Google. In fact, whenever I want to be productive in the sense of "creating something new" , I need to stay away from the Internet to avoid procrastination and distraction.
Yeah... stopping to check your MR messages and posts can cost you hours!..
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Old 06-10-2008, 05:46 PM   #22
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But this is not a question of the underlying technology - it is a question of personal style.
I admit that I do the same - surfing when I should be working, e.g. just now - but: I could do otherwise without changing my browser
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Old 06-11-2008, 02:40 AM   #23
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Yeah... stopping to check your MR messages and posts can cost you hours!..
Hey, come on Steve, you mean days...
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Old 06-11-2008, 04:53 AM   #24
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Google books let me download Carlyle. I don't think anyone's brain remains the same after Carlyle. Talk about getting your brain in a twist...

But I do see what Mr. Carr is talking about in the article. I don't think it's so much that the info on Google (or your search engine of choice) is suspect (which, of course, it is) as it is that it's presented in small, easily digested chunks, which trains our brains to expect future info-chunks to be as equally small and easily digested. Long passages in research books require a longer focus than many of us have brought to bear in quite a while.

And now this post is too long and no one will read it. Alas...
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Old 06-11-2008, 05:01 AM   #25
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Google books let me download Carlyle. I don't think anyone's brain remains the same after Carlyle. Talk about getting your brain in a twist...

But I do see what Mr. Carr is talking about in the article. I don't think it's so much that the info on Google (or your search engine of choice) is suspect (which, of course, it is) as it is that it's presented in small, easily digested chunks, which trains our brains to expect future info-chunks to be as equally small and easily digested. Long passages in research books require a longer focus than many of us have brought to bear in quite a while.

And now this post is too long and no one will read it. Alas...
Wrong!!!

If you are interested in LONG posts, pop into the Lounge for a day or two...
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Old 06-11-2008, 08:43 AM   #26
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First at all, i think its wrong to attribute the fault to google. If, its the internets content that makes us stupid, not to search engine to access it.

This has really becoming radical in some cases, I know some gaming site, where people really hardly read anything more than 2 lines. And even then only read the headline...

This "short attention span" syndrome is all about our current time. Its not only the internet, take for example music. When you listen to Bethovens pastorale or vivaldis seasons or Smetanas Moldau, a music piece lasts at least 30 minutes. You are introduced to theme, get to listen it in differet variations, the whole thing even tells a story. You have to have at least 30 minutes time to be able to really dive into it.

Whats today? The average single lasts 2 minutes and 30 seconds. Quick intro, the theme is actually to whole music piece. After a short spurt some peak, then a mixing point for the DJ, over.

I think it makes a hugh difference already if you train you brain to grasp a 30 minute music story, or throw one 2:30 single after the other into it.
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Old 06-11-2008, 09:33 AM   #27
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Hmm ... I remember having read, that most people only read the headline of newspapers instead of the whole article - and this study was way before the internet became that ever-present.
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Old 06-11-2008, 10:46 AM   #28
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The issue of whether or not the internet help children learn when it comes to research is a fascinating question. A friend of mine was doing Teach For America in New Jersey and she struggled to get the kids to ever do anything but copy web pages.

Call me old fashioned, but I don't think we can afford to depart from libraries yet. We need to force kids to use some hard sources.
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Old 06-11-2008, 10:54 AM   #29
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Where is the actual difference between a libary and the internet? We need a bit more education to filter unneeded information from the internet - but as the internet is a reality, we already need this education.
Wether you work better in a library or with the internet is just a matter of personal habits not of technology.
Libraries are already outdated technically - we need to adopt to the internet. And we need to teach our children to do this as well.
They learn the usage themselves - but neither the ethics, nor the filter technics, nor anything else. This we have to teach them...
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Old 06-11-2008, 11:39 AM   #30
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Where is the actual difference between a libary and the internet?
The way a website is build up is usually very different to the way a book is build up. What exactly the implications are is open, but it is IMHO undeniable that there is a difference in the information markup, and it does change something/anything.

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Wether you work better in a library or with the internet is just a matter of personal habits not of technology.
What about working *in* a library *with* the internet?

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Libraries are already outdated technically - we need to adopt to the internet.
Not yet, when digitalisation and e.g. the iLiad advances it might get less important. If its outdated, why do I need so often to go to the university library to borrow some book? But it will IMHO never get "outdated" per se. Its never like that new technologies really completly write over old ones, without them finding any niche to continue existing. When Gutenberg developed his printing machine, did handwritting get outdated? Or do we handwrite still today? Of course, it hasn't got the importance it had pre-gutenberg, but I do handwrite ;-) Same with the newspaper over the book. TV over radio. Internet over TV. And so on.

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And we need to teach our children to do this as well.
Indeed.

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They learn the usage themselves - but neither the ethics, nor the filter technics, nor anything else. This we have to teach them...
Also this is 100% true.

I have to confess, back in school years, on book presentations, instead of just giving my views of the book, I did look it up in the library in some lexicon about books, and filtered some of the concluding that obviously couldn't be from me, but presented the others as my work.... However I never, ever would have thinked about transcribing anything word by word, even when copy/paste wasn't even invented yet.

This relies also on the practical thinking, my teacher would have easily differentiated any sentence that came out of my head, by any sentence I transcribed from a book. Maybe thats also an issue, why is the content on the internet the kids copy/paste in a language thats not differentiable to the writing of a kid? :-)

But indeed, I knew of a story of a little kid, when challenged he cannot copy/paste stuff from the internet, he answered. Why? Its everything free, I can navigate there just as easily.

Yes, they do need to learn, its not free. And its not okay to present any others words as his own.

This is an aspect thats still troublesome on the university now. How often do I have to watch other students presentations, with the usually task to present some paper, selected chapter(s) of a classic book etc., and I ask myself when hearing it. Do they communicate well, what are their thoughts/ideas and what are the authers? Or do those get mixed up in a complete mess. Or worse beside the title slide, I sometimes get the feeling somehow they describe the content as their work, as their opinions, instead of someone elses work/views they studied...

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