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Old 06-01-2008, 08:57 AM   #46
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If they do not distribute the firmware and just a program to modify the firmware to be able to install it on the EB-100, then it's really not much of an issue. They won't be distributing copywritten code. stolen from Bookeen. Just the program to do the mods to the code.
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Old 06-01-2008, 10:53 AM   #47
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All that I can say is that after reading the reading the thread the impression that I took from it is that “we’ve found Bookeen has violated the GPL so we’re
... so we're safe to do anything which is legal, but unwelcome by Bookeen, and don't fear the cease&desist letters from them.

If Bookeen would steal the Microsoft code, I suppose Bookeen would be shut down very soon, while the OSS people let them live.
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Old 06-01-2008, 11:42 AM   #48
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All that I can say is that after reading the reading the thread the impression that I took from it is that “we’ve found Bookeen has violated the GPL so we’re going to steal the work that they’ve done and defy them to sue us because we’ll sue them back”. The lesson that Bookeen and other companies will take is not “Gee we better honor the GPL”. It will be that you’re better off dealing with Microsoft, their licensing fees and corporate lawyers then the open source community. It will be sad to see Microsoft win the embedded OS space because they’re easier to deal with.

As always just my opinion.
You may be right, sad to say. I don't begrudge Bookeen selling their Boo Reader for a profit. Compared to the likes of the Ebook Reader software one finds on devices like the STAReBOOK, I find the Boo Reader to be quite a nice implementation of a basic Mobipocket ebook reader. I would like to see more device manufacturers settling on one common ebook format.

And dealing with Microsoft doesn't really gain anything as far as locked-into-one-proprietary-format for them because there are plenty of ARM/WinCE implementations of eReader Pro and Mobipocket Reader. If they run on ONE WinCE/ARM platform, they should run on all.

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Old 06-01-2008, 12:01 PM   #49
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... so we're safe to do anything which is legal, but unwelcome by Bookeen, and don't fear the cease&desist letters from them.
But is it legal to install the firmware onto a different machine? Does the software licence permit you to do you?
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Old 06-01-2008, 12:07 PM   #50
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But is it legal to install the firmware onto a different machine? Does the software licence permit you to do you?
Why does the answer to this questions matter? How does this affect the legality of giving instructions for something?

You seem to want to check legality and follow the laws. Did you check if it was legal for you to sell your Cybook? My check in Sweden gave the result that it is illegal. What holds in the UK?
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Old 06-01-2008, 12:08 PM   #51
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I bought it. It's my properly. I can sell it. Could you show me something on the Bookeen site telling me that I can't?
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Old 06-01-2008, 12:10 PM   #52
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I bought it. It's my properly. I can sell it.
You do not have the license to sell the software in it. It really depends on exactly how the laws are formulated in these cases. In this forum you point out to everybody else that there actions can be illegal but you ignore this advice yourself?
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Old 06-01-2008, 12:11 PM   #53
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Why does the answer to this questions matter? How does this affect the legality of giving instructions for something?
Why does it matter? I don't know about you, but I'd want to know if someone's giving me instructions which would result in me breaking the law! Sure - giving the instructions is fine, but carrying them out may not be .
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Old 06-01-2008, 12:12 PM   #54
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Why does it matter? I don't know about you, but I'd want to know if someone's giving me instructions which would result in me breaking the law! Sure - giving the instructions is fine, but carrying them out may not be .
Sure. Strange that you want to know the legality in this case but not in the case of selling your Cybook.
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Old 06-01-2008, 12:12 PM   #55
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You do not have the license to sell the software in it. It really depends on exactly how the laws are formulated in these cases. In this forum you point out to everybody else that there actions can be illegal but you ignore this advice yourself?
My software licence is with Bookeen. I really don't give a damn who THEIR software licence is with. If they're doing something wrong, it's not MY problem.

You claim that Bookeen are breaking the law. Have they been convicted of doing so in a court? Ever heard of the phrase "innocent until proven guilty"?
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Old 06-01-2008, 12:15 PM   #56
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My software licence is with Bookeen. I really don't give a damn who THEIR software licence is with. If they're doing something wrong, it's not MY problem.
You saying something does not make it legal. You do not have the permission to sell the GPL:ed software since you are not providing the source code. OK, you do not care if you break the law. That standpoint is OK

There might be special laws that handle these kind of situations but your argument is not an example of how these laws works.
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Old 06-01-2008, 12:20 PM   #57
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Tommy, your claim that I don't have a right to sell an eBook reader that I legitimately bought is patently ridiculous. If Bookeen have contractual disputes with THEIR supplies, that does not affect MY rights as a customer. That would be like saying that if I bought a Ford car, and Ford have some legal wrangle with one of their sub-contractors, I'm not allowed to sell my Ford. Utter nonsense.
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Old 06-01-2008, 12:20 PM   #58
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But is it legal to install the firmware onto a different machine? Does the software licence permit you to do you?
I dunno. IANAL.

However, this circles around to whether you 'own' the firmware on your Cybook - as well as the Cybook itself - or whether you're just 'renting' it. While I cannot support the idea that it would, somehow, be legal to copy the firmware from one brand of ebook reader to another for the express purpose of selling the latter, I, personally, believe that doing so for one's own use is perfectly acceptable. After all, if I were to somehow figure out how to get the Sony PRS-500 firmware up and running on my Cybook (No doubt a daunting task what with all the hardware differences.), it would be only me taking the risk of damage to my Cybook and PRS-500. If I failed to do so properly - assuming it could be accomplished at all - and my Cybook got 'toasted', only I would suffer from my actions. Well, me and my property - all of which I've bought.

Firmware on a device is merely a 'component', a 'part' so to speak. Should I want to take the drive belt from one lawn mower to a different brand, I'm the one who's purchased both - I can do so. Yes, people have slaved long and hard on the development of the lawn mower - and even the drive belt. But they're not losing money if I make the attempt, they've already been paid - by me. Further, if doing so damages one of my lawn mowers, I may well have to buy another - still greater profit to the manufacturers.

The same is true if I were to attempt to port my Sony PRS-500's firmware to my Cybook Gen3. Maybe I'll end up with a functional 'clone' of the PRS-500, maybe I'll end up with a toasted Cybook. If the former, well, I get to enjoy the dubious pleasure of owning/using a PRS-500 'clone'. If the latter, I get the even more dubious joy of owning a bank account which has suddenly been depleted of $375 for a new Cybook. Fair trade for the risk involved.

But I think everyone's missing out on one fact. The attempt will be made (either Sony -> Cybook or Cybook -> STAReBOOk or Kindle -> Hanlin) not so much because one is better than the other, but because each such attempt, successful or not, yields information which will help in developing a cross-platform OS and ebook reader application.

Sony wants customers locked into the PRS, Amazon to the Kindle, Bookeen to the Cybook. This is the nature of the beast. Customers want to be able to buy the hardware they prefer and run the application that gives them the widest and most feature-laden access to the ebooks they buy. Experiments will take place. This is the nature of the curious, naked apes that we are.

Derek
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Old 06-01-2008, 12:23 PM   #59
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I dunno. IANAL.
Neither do I - it was a genuine question, not a rhetorical one .
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Old 06-01-2008, 12:31 PM   #60
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Tommy, your claim that I don't have a right to sell an eBook reader that I legitimately bought is patently ridiculous. If Bookeen have contractual disputes with THEIR supplies, that does not affect MY rights as a customer. That would be like saying that if I bought a Ford car, and Ford have some legal wrangle with one of their sub-contractors, I'm not allowed to sell my Ford. Utter nonsense.
You nailed it - copyright laws are utter nonsense, but we HAVE to obey them, despite their nonsesnseness. Still.

If you would sell Bookeen to me, I'd have legal right to sue you, as you did not provide written offer for source code and written GPL license text with the device, nor the source code by request. And your only possibly move would be to sue Cybook, as they did not provide it either.
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