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View Poll Results: Do we want to keep the same categories as 2013/2014 for 2015?
Yes, they are good as-is. 10 50.00%
No, let's vote on the current categories to get rid of our least favorite ones. 2 10.00%
No, let's get more non-fiction. 0 0%
No, let's use JSWolf's list. 8 40.00%
No, let's have a new vote (Dazrin's suggestion). 3 15.00%
No, let's use sun surfer's list. 6 30.00%
No, let's have a new vote (sun surfer's suggestion). 9 45.00%
No, let's get rid of three low voter turnout categories 1 5.00%
No, let's do something else. Explain your response in the comments, be specific. 0 0%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 20. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-20-2014, 12:58 AM   #31
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@Dazrin:

Are we having fun yet?
I stand by the statement I made when I first said I would do this.
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Let me preface this with .... WHAT AM I THINKING!?!
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Old 08-21-2014, 05:20 AM   #32
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Come on, we need more votes for my list. We can sort out the issue we have after it wins. It's a very good list overall. So please vote for it so we can enjoy 2015.
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Old 08-21-2014, 07:37 AM   #33
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Come on, we need more votes for my list. We can sort out the issue we have after it wins. It's a very good list overall. So please vote for it so we can enjoy 2015.
Jon, if you drop your objections (and Dazrin says the post 46 will be THE list), I'll vote for D.

I'm going to wait to the very end to vote in the hope that nothing new suddenly appears that may cause a new vote or discussion and vote.

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...

We are using post 46 for item D since that is the one that had most agreement during the discussion, but since I goofed up, we may need to clarify one category afterwards. I was thinking that I could check with everyone who voted for it and see if there is a clear majority one way or the other. Or else we can use Jon's suggestion to replace a different category.

...
Dazrin, could we/I please get a clarification on what will be done if D is chosen?

And we appear to be heading in a direction I was hoping could be avoided: a couple of vocal people pushing something that the majority may not want.

We had a poll with various choices, some that allow for further discussion and voting, some that don't; D was one of those that was meant to be final. IMO.

I'm feeling very, very, very, very disenfranchised.
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Old 08-21-2014, 01:55 PM   #34
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Dazrin, could we/I please get a clarification on what will be done if D is chosen?

And we appear to be heading in a direction I was hoping could be avoided: a couple of vocal people pushing something that the majority may not want.

We had a poll with various choices, some that allow for further discussion and voting, some that don't; D was one of those that was meant to be final. IMO.

I'm feeling very, very, very, very disenfranchised.
Right now, the best I can say is that post 46 is the base for option D.

Unfortunately, without starting over, I don't know that it is fair to say definitively what option D will be. Either you/treadlightly (and others?) get disenfranchised or JSWolf (and others?) does.

I am certainly open to feedback here. How do we resolve this and keep it fair to everyone? Does starting over make sense? Does setting the option in stone make sense? Should we change option I to be post 72 and see if WT Sharpe can split the votes that have already been cast to the appropriate option? Etc.

Here are my current thoughts on how to resolve this if option D wins: have a shorter, single vote, run-off poll with (1) post 46, (2) post 72, (3) the runner-up from this poll. I am including the runner-up from this poll because if option D doesn't win by a large margin and then gets split, it is likely that the runner-up would have won to start with. I would post the questions and the OP in this thread (or the discussion thread) before starting that poll to be sure I have things correct.

Does this option feel fair to everyone? It gives both of the lists an even chance and gives the runner-up a chance since the vote for option D would almost certainly be split.

Spoiler:
I have gone away from this in favor of a run-off poll which would give everyone a vote instead of just those who voted for option D, but my original thought as alluded to earlier in this thread was that after the vote, if option D wins, I would send a PM to the people who voted on this choice asking: Did you want post 46? Did you want post 72? Did you care? I will report the results back here (anonymously* if any one person wants me to do that) and if there is a large consensus (2/3?) one way or the other, that option will win. If there isn't a large consensus, I will post another poll with the two options and maybe, if someone can come up with a compromise option that gets a lot of verbal support from both sides, a third option. I am not inclined to add a third option at this point though. I might also include the runner-up option from the original poll unless option D wins by a large number. That way we have the runner up option that might have won if the vote for option D had been split.

*If I do get asked to post it anonymously, I would probably want to have a 3rd party know who/what all the votes are as well so that that person can verify that I have it all correct. I would do that by copying them on the initial PMs or at least forwarding the responses.
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Old 08-21-2014, 03:06 PM   #35
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If it will get more votes, go for the list in post #46.
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Old 08-21-2014, 06:14 PM   #36
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I've just reread the list for option G. I find I see a major issue there that needs to be sorted like now and not if it wins.

Foreign needs to go away. It's an unfair category. If you live in a non-English speaking country and a book written by someone in your country wins, that's not foreign. Foreign is unable to be fair to a global readership. There is no book written that's foreign to everyone who could possibly be participating. And it's highly unfair to make it just non-English. There are people might want to read something written in English as foreign.

Please remove Foreign as a category as it's one that cannot be fair and impartial. I know people have already voted on it as is, but if we leave it in, anyone elsee voting for it will think it's one of the categories on the vote when if it happens.
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Old 08-21-2014, 06:26 PM   #37
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[sarcasm on]
Uh oh. That means there is also the same problem with the current list, option A. And in option E. And in option F. And maybe in option B and H (well, at least we know what needs to be voted out then.) I guess that means we are stuck with option C, D, and I. Which means option D wins because it is the only one with votes, so we might as well stop the vote now and just get a move on.
[sarcasm off]

Seriously though, it has worked as a category for the last couple years, if it is chosen for next year there is no reason it won't continue to work. No change necessary.
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Old 08-21-2014, 06:39 PM   #38
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[sarcasm on]
Uh oh. That means there is also the same problem with the current list, option A. And in option E. And in option F. And maybe in option B and H (well, at least we know what needs to be voted out then.) I guess that means we are stuck with option C, D, and I. Which means option D wins because it is the only one with votes, so we might as well stop the vote now and just get a move on.
[sarcasm off]

Seriously though, it has worked as a category for the last couple years, if it is chosen for next year there is no reason it won't continue to work. No change necessary.
But when you think about it logically, it doesn't work. If you live in Germany and a German book is picked, how is that foreign to you? It's not. So no, it's not a fair category and should not be. You might want a book that's in English because to you that is a foreign book. But because English is banned from foreign books, then you cannot pick that book. It's just an unfair category. It's just that nobody has ever really looked at it properly before now.
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Old 08-22-2014, 03:28 AM   #39
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Just thought I would mention that I will be out of pocket for the next few days, returning Monday night in time for the poll to finish up and hopefully get things wrapped up. Good reading!
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Old 08-23-2014, 01:02 AM   #40
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I am content with the current situation, so I voted for the first option.

But I also like sun surfer's suggestion of starting over and picking the twelve most popular, so I also voted for option G.
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Old 08-23-2014, 04:26 PM   #41
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I am content with the current situation, so I voted for the first option.

But I also like sun surfer's suggestion of starting over and picking the twelve most popular, so I also voted for option G.
The problem by picking to start over over again using the list provided is that it contains foreign which is no good for a global user base. So that list is no god as is and because you are voting for it as it, it should be made invalid. It would be very difficult (could be impossible) to pick a foreign book that's foreign to everyone who might participate in the book club.
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Old 08-24-2014, 06:09 PM   #42
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My list just needs two more votes and then we can sort it out from there to then become the 2015 category list. In the voting list that's the 4th option down.
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Old 08-26-2014, 02:06 AM   #43
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A little less than 24 hours to go and 3 strong contenders. Should be interesting tomorrow.
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Old 08-26-2014, 03:44 AM   #44
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I'm very curious as to what the result would be if we started from scratch as per sun surfer's suggestion!
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Old 08-26-2014, 09:18 PM   #45
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Attention fence sitters: We are down to the final few minutes, it is time to make up your mind.



JSWolf would like you to make my life difficult and vote for option D. All those who don't like change would like you to vote for option A. Anyone who "demand[s] rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty" should vote for option G.

Last edited by Dazrin; 08-26-2014 at 09:19 PM. Reason: fixed the quote.
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