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Old 08-07-2014, 03:43 PM   #16
CWatkinsNash
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Originally Posted by crich70 View Post
...wasn't there a Russian Mir that had a fire or almost did due to not being maintained properly or something.
You mean this one?

http://www.universetoday.com/100229/...tation-safety/

It was apparently a faulty canister.
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Old 08-07-2014, 05:44 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by CWatkinsNash View Post
You mean this one?

http://www.universetoday.com/100229/...tation-safety/

It was apparently a faulty canister.
Thanks. I didn't realize it was so long ago already. Of course NASA made changes to Apollo after the Apollo 1 disaster as well.
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Old 08-07-2014, 06:44 PM   #18
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RE: Fire in microgravity.

Obnoxious delivery style, but the basic facts are there and a few good visuals: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zdD7lfB0Fs

Or for a much more in-depth look at fire safety in space than you ever thought you could find on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSMdW4z1P78 (Martin Shipp talks of BRE (FRS) work to study fires in microgravity and the review of the fire safety strategy for the Columbus Module of the International Space Station. 48 minutes long)
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Old 08-08-2014, 01:49 PM   #19
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Good link for fire in microgravity. Thanks!
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Old 08-09-2014, 06:14 AM   #20
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Too bad the writers didn't try harder on the worst episode of the original Battlestar Galactica "Fire in Space".
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Old 08-09-2014, 11:01 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by bizzybody View Post
Too bad the writers didn't try harder on the worst episode of the original Battlestar Galactica "Fire in Space".

And yet it is loved by many. Hmmm. I suppose this means that ultimately it doesn't matter.
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Old 08-09-2014, 03:05 PM   #22
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Old 08-09-2014, 03:44 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by bizzybody View Post
If you have a spacecraft in your story that is somehow going to develop a hole in its hull, please do not write that your characters get sucked into the vacuum of space.

They get blown out into space.
This VERY much depends on where the observer is located ;-)

When you drink lemonade, you say that you sucked it through straw instead of "the atmospheric pressure pressing on the surface of the cup squirted the lemonade to your mouth". While drinking, an overhead ventilator might be blowing air on you. How is this blowing related to the people being blown out of the aircraft?

By the way, watch mythbusters as they tried to pressurize an aircraft and shoot through the window to have stuff / people blown / sucked out of the aircraft ;-)
*Much* less spectacular result than movies might led you to believe.

Last edited by kacir; 08-09-2014 at 03:52 PM.
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Old 08-10-2014, 11:55 AM   #24
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Exactly. It takes a BIG hole to cause a blowout. A small hole, like a nail in a tyre,, causes a slow flat. Arthur C Clarke knew this back in 1953, when he wrote The Sands of Mars. The ship is hit by a micrometeorite; the result is a slow pressure drop, not a blowout.

Mind you, if the shot went through a plastic aircraft window which cracked wide open, yes, a catastrophic blowout could occur. But not necessarily.

I recall Oddjob being shot out of a window like a champagne cork in Goldfinger (the book as well as the film) and I thing Fleming said "sucked" in the book...

Why do I remember these things? It's a worry.
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Old 08-10-2014, 07:58 PM   #25
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I saw that Mythbusters episode when it was first on. I knew before seeing it that the scene in "US Marshals" was complete bolshoi. Holes in the windows or skin are at worst an inconvenience which requires a quick descent and abort to the nearest airport. Blowing out a whole window literally requires a decent sized explosive and small to medium sized people could get blown out - but only if they're close as the pressure drops very fast.

That's another problem with so many books and shows, the decompression is drawn out far too long. A decent size hole will equalize pressure in a large plane in a short time. On space ships or stations, unless it's a really large space like a hangar or construction room, same thing as doors would be closed to limit air loss.
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Old 08-11-2014, 05:57 AM   #26
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I guess that for me, I can be pretty much fooled by a good writer. My science isn't strong, so convincing settings and events will usually keep me involved. For some reason I find this less so in movies - I can accept any sort of premise to a point - but it often amuses me when I get to the 'that would never happen' moment when all the acceptances I've already made become unstitched.
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Old 08-11-2014, 08:29 AM   #27
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This conversation reminds me of Alien Resurrection, which I recall had a newborn alien sucked/blown out of a bullet hole in the side of a spaceship. Of course, the science was the least of that movies problems.


Quote:
Originally Posted by little and large View Post
I guess that for me, I can be pretty much fooled by a good writer. My science isn't strong, so convincing settings and events will usually keep me involved. For some reason I find this less so in movies - I can accept any sort of premise to a point - but it often amuses me when I get to the 'that would never happen' moment when all the acceptances I've already made become unstitched.
Well, a key component of science fiction is "fiction", and a well-written movie or book can definitely carry me past bad science as well.
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Old 08-11-2014, 10:03 AM   #28
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And yet it is loved by many. Hmmm. I suppose this means that ultimately it doesn't matter.
But in BSG, they had artificial gravity on the ships so fire would behave the same as it does on Earth - it wasn't in a microgravity environment at least wherever the magic ship's gravity was present.
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Old 08-11-2014, 11:07 AM   #29
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There's an awful lot of books and movies (most?) that called "science fiction" that aren't - they're fantasy with technical looking gizmos. Sometimes they might tip their hat gently is the direction of realism, but it isn't a priority. As a fantasy fan, I'm okay with that.

If you want science then get it from somewhere reliable - somewhere that isn't just trying to find what looks most impressive on the screen or sounds most exciting on the page.

But if you want entertainment, then boost your credulity for a while and have fun.
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Old 08-11-2014, 12:28 PM   #30
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Too bad the writers didn't try harder on the worst episode of the original Battlestar Galactica "Fire in Space".
If they had gotten the fire science right, it would have been disruptive, as it would have been the ONLY real science on that show! Why change a working formula!?

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Originally Posted by crich70 View Post
Thanks. I didn't realize it was so long ago already. Of course NASA made changes to Apollo after the Apollo 1 disaster as well.
By contrast, I distinctly recall reading in some reliable news source that the ISS could NOT be changed even with lessons learned in the MIR fire (e.g., the way cables were run) because the design process was too far along.

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I saw that Mythbusters episode when it was first on.
Ah, Mythbusters. The show that wants you to believe that if two mid-budget special effects guys can't do it in the time it takes to make a cable TV episode, then NO ONE CAN!!! Bwahaha!

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Originally Posted by little and large View Post
I guess that for me, I can be pretty much fooled by a good writer.
And that's OK. Story has to come first in fiction.
Internal continuity comes next, else you get taken out of the story and can't suspend disbelief.
Actual factual technical accuracy needs to come below those things in terms of priority, but as a science and SF buff, I do enjoy it, and I'd seek out writers who manage it.

As for the OP, I agree with most of the respondents: Suck is just as correct as blow depending on your point of view.
I found it unworthy of Commander Data to correct Riker on the same matter on that one episode of ST:TNG, as well:


But, what can we do. After all, most writers are writers, not scientists, or space cowboys.

ApK

Last edited by ApK; 08-11-2014 at 12:40 PM.
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