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Old 08-22-2014, 09:11 PM   #571
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So what if some ebooks were sold below cost?! The public doesn't know that. All they know is that certain categories of paper books and ebooks are steeply discounted and that's the price they expect for future purchases. The below cost differentiation is a red herring and irrelevant to this discussion.

Maybe Amazon should try a different approach. They could let the publishers set retail prices for ebooks and then when a customer buys one, Amazon gives that customer a $3 to $5 credit in the Kindle store or at Amazon.com. That's the strategy retailers use when selling products from companies that won't allow discounts on certain items - iPads, gaming systems, etc.
It has everything to do with the conversation. If Amazon sold ebooks like they sold hardcovers, wholesale cost + small profit, the publishers wouldn't have been so upset and colluded to establish agency pricing.

Amazon should have been more patient and build up their KDP selection with lower prices. Market these (and any cooperating pubs) heavily. This would price the Big 6 out of the market. Letting them voluntary reduce prices is preferable to forcing the issue.
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Old 08-22-2014, 09:44 PM   #572
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Publishing a book by Paul Ryan just dropped Hatchette into the crazy category and dropped them down in my opinion. I could go on to say what a nut case Paul Ryan is and that he is dangerous as a politician for the United States, but I won't as this is not the appropriate forum for that.
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Why is Hachette subject to a ideological litmus test when it publishes books by authors across the political spectrum, but Amazon gets a free pass when it discounts Paul Ryan?
Sorry, I never meant for the first sentence to be included. I thought I had erased it. The "spot on assessment" was meant only for the second sentence.

Personally, I have no problem with publishers publishing works from anyone and would never think anything less of them when they did so.

I'm editing that post.
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Old 08-22-2014, 10:07 PM   #573
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Originally Posted by Fbone View Post
It has everything to do with the conversation. If Amazon sold ebooks like they sold hardcovers, wholesale cost + small profit, the publishers wouldn't have been so upset and colluded to establish agency pricing.
Quite frankly, it's none of their business how Amazon chooses to set retail prices on ebooks after Amazon has purchased them. As far as I'm concerned, it's up to the retailer to set prices, not the company providing the product; and loss leaders are nothing new to the business world. If the publishers didn't like what Amazon was doing, then they should've pulled their books and sold them elsewhere.
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Old 08-22-2014, 10:24 PM   #574
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Originally Posted by tubemonkey View Post
Quite frankly, it's none of their business how Amazon chooses to set retail prices on ebooks after Amazon has purchased them. As far as I'm concerned, it's up to the retailer to set prices, not the company providing the product; and loss leaders are nothing new to the business world. If the publishers didn't like what Amazon was doing, then they should've pulled their books and sold them elsewhere.
Does Amazon set retail prices on other digital products? Music, video and apps?
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Old 08-22-2014, 10:49 PM   #575
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Does Amazon set retail prices on other digital products? Music, video and apps?
No idea.
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Old 08-22-2014, 10:55 PM   #576
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Originally Posted by tubemonkey View Post
No idea.
I guess the publishers want the same set up as the music, video and app producers.
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Old 08-22-2014, 11:34 PM   #577
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fbone View Post
I guess the publishers want the same set up as the music, video and app producers.
But they are producing books. They are the ones that wanted to sell ebooks under the same model as pbooks. And they thought the ebook stores would treat them the same according to price. If they still do, decide one way or other for p and e books.
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Old 08-23-2014, 06:57 AM   #578
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Originally Posted by SteveEisenberg View Post
Why is Hachette subject to a ideological litmus test when it publishes books by authors across the political spectrum, but Amazon gets a free pass when it discounts Paul Ryan?
Because to many here on MR, publishers can do no right and Amazon can do no wrong.
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Old 08-23-2014, 07:02 AM   #579
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Originally Posted by tubemonkey View Post
Quite frankly, it's none of their business how Amazon chooses to set retail prices on ebooks after Amazon has purchased them.
But Amazon didn't purchase the ebooks until it sold the ebooks. The purchase and sale were essentially simultaneous transactions.

In the case of pbooks that a bookstore stocks, the bookstore buys the pbook before the sale and if it can't sell the pbook, returns the pbook for a refund.

In the case of an ebook, there is no return to the publisher and thus no refund because the ebook was not bought by the retailer.
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Old 08-23-2014, 07:19 AM   #580
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tubemonkey View Post
So what if some ebooks were sold below cost?! The public doesn't know that. All they know is that certain categories of paper books and ebooks are steeply discounted and that's the price they expect for future purchases. The below cost differentiation is a red herring and irrelevant to this discussion.
...
And with that sentence, you basically prove the publishers' case for agency pricing. The current contract battle between Amazon and Hatchette, where Amazon is basically saying the publishers need to cut their price so Amazon can sell those ebooks at a discount and still make a profit, is the expected result of Amazon setting the price point.
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Old 08-23-2014, 07:29 AM   #581
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhadin View Post
But Amazon didn't purchase the ebooks until it sold the ebooks. The purchase and sale were essentially simultaneous transactions.
Is that how it's done? Even so, it's not germane as to what a retailer sells it for.
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Old 08-23-2014, 07:35 AM   #582
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Originally Posted by pwalker8 View Post
And with that sentence, you basically prove the publishers' case for agency pricing.
It proves the publishers are hypocrites for not instituting agency pricing for hardcovers.

Quote:
The current contract battle between Amazon and Hatchette, where Amazon is basically saying the publishers need to cut their price so Amazon can sell those ebooks at a discount and still make a profit, is the expected result of Amazon setting the price point.
Nothing new there. That's typical whenever strong players negotiate.
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Old 08-23-2014, 07:56 AM   #583
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhadin View Post
But Amazon didn't purchase the ebooks until it sold the ebooks. The purchase and sale were essentially simultaneous transactions.
If that were actually the way it worked, the ebooks would be stored on the publisher's server until sold by Amazon. Do you really think that this is the way it works?

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Old 08-23-2014, 08:10 AM   #584
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If that were actually the way it worked, the ebooks would be stored on the publisher's server until sold by Amazon. Do you really think that this is the way it works?

Shari
Why should it? The relevant thing here is when money is exchanged.
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Old 08-23-2014, 09:31 AM   #585
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Nobody really thinks Amazon is still paying for all physical books up front (before the sale), do they? Perhaps maybe with publishers they currently have no contract with (ahem), but other than that ... I don't believe for a second that they're "buying" BPH pbooks in advance. The publishers are using Amazon's warehouses for mass pbook storage and then Amazon is evening up with them (based on sales) at a later date. Just like they do with ebooks (the "later date" part, not the "storing in warehouses" part).
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