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Old 04-01-2014, 02:28 PM   #46
eping
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I have to consider the companies are just foolish.
I think they can add a lot of function on an eink device, but they just don't, they just think eink is only used for reading ebook.
1 They can add email functions easily, but they don't.
2 They can add a simple writer, they don't
3 They can add a blog writer, they don't
4 They can add mp3/music, they even removed it.
5 They can add GPS, they don't.
(I'm traveling, phone just useless under sunshine, how I want
a eink devices with GPS and map(mono ok)!)
6 There can be games like chess, mines, cross word, soduko,
poker or SLG no need of color screen, but they don't.
Many of above functions even available in old mono screen devices such
Palm.

If you know an eink device with those functions, please tell me, I really need one.

They just don't think.

By the way, who can tell me why they(notebooks) all changed to 16:9 screen, why not some produce 16:9, some produce 3:4 screen,
(why they think all need 16:9 screen, I just need 3:4, and I heard many friends want 3:4 screen, I even had to buy old notebook for that)
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Old 04-01-2014, 03:20 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by crossi View Post
Why would I buy a new one? The one I have works fine. There are no physical changes that it needs which is what most mean by an upgrade. It's like paper books, the concept of a upgrade is pretty meaningless. I never even bothered with changing to a touch screen or a light. The software could use some tweaking but other than better library management simpler is better. Eink is like bound paper to display print. That is all it needs to do and how much could that be improved? What's with the idea that everything needs constant "upgrades".
That sums it up.

The mistake being made imo is that e-ink readers are being looked at with the same standard as personal multimedia computing devices, which they are not. Mobile multimedia's task is doubly difficult: Not only does it need to keep up with constantly evolving software and content, but it needs to display the full range of conceivable imagery and sound as close to life-like as possible. That's a tall ceiling to strive towards.

Eink crammed moveable ink particles into a sheet of plastic. It is mechanical print, a function it essentially achieved in full on day one. Its storage and instructions are digital, but it doesn't necessarily need to be. You could make an e-ink reader that gets its instructions from nearly any storage medium and the image on the display would be the same. Its source material does not become more demanding with time. Any changes or refinements to the technology or the devices built around it must not compromise its primary function. The more advanced an eink display, the less it resembles technology.

Eink's success is linked to the consumer preference for print. For eink to fail, print needs to either totally lose or totally win. Tablets and such compete for consumer spending due to an overlap of usage (rather than function), which they are certainly doing, but it's not an evolutionary zero-sum competition similar to VHS/DVD, where one replaces the other. At least, not yet. The fact that display technology had to be totally circumvented in order to popularize ebooks tells me that it has a long way to go before it presents an evolutionary threat.

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Old 04-01-2014, 03:46 PM   #48
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I think they can add a lot of function on an eink device, but they just don't, they just think eink is only used for reading ebook.
They can and they did; then they removed them, because those features were largely ignored. They don't think they're being used only for books, they know it. The identity-crisis of eink readers was short-lived. Now, they will either survive or perish as what they are: mechanical books.
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Old 04-01-2014, 04:07 PM   #49
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with e inkThey never really solved the color issue or the slow refresh rate... I love my T1 but I find myself increasingly using the android tablet as I can also play videos play games etc and read even in normal light.. if I bought the tablet first I likely would not have bought the reader......
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Old 04-01-2014, 04:34 PM   #50
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If you know an eink device with those functions, please tell me, I really need one.
Several of us have pre-ordered the EARL. (See thread http://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=213065 )

Looks like it would meet most of your needs.
It's not available for sale yet, however you can preorder one, and when it's ready, they will send it to you. I backed the project aout this time last year, and I'm hoping it's ready for hunting season.
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Old 04-01-2014, 05:15 PM   #51
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There's no way to know for sure, but I'm thinking this is the most probable explanation. eInk needs Amazon more than Amazon needs eInk, so Amazon can demand ever-lower prices.

To some extent. Amazon and Kobo sell both sell tablet-like devices so they are not 100% dependant on Eink.

But both sell entry priced Eink readers which are probably priced below their cost. And these are pretty functional devices.

I see it as a loss leader. Conditioning people to read electronically and making it easy to purchase books from the ereader vendor. This strategy has paid off big time IMO.

Amazon forcing the price down is akin to killing the goose who laid the golden egg. I am sure that Amazon etc. would survive quite well, but I am thinking they would be better off with the EINK screen manufacturer still in business and that Amazon at least is able to see this.

And while sales may be declining, they are probably at a very healthy level compared to 2011 and earlier. And it seems to say that sales are not yet declining, just not increasing dramatically. Like a lot of things once the initial growth spurt has ended.

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Old 04-01-2014, 06:42 PM   #52
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I think the biggest factor that will likely allow e-ink readers to survive (maybe only as a niche market, but survive nonetheless) is the fact that book content being produced for the devices replacing it is in a format (largely) that works on them. For example, when DVD's started replacing VCR's, it ended up largely killed VCR's because the content moved strictly to DVD since there no longer was a mass market for Video Cassettes. At least currently you can use the exact same book on your tablet and your e-reader, so CURRENT (as opposed to just "back-list") consumable content is and will be available. That means it doesn't be as "obsolete" as say my VCR (and maybe even my DVD :-o) is for consuming new movie content.
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Old 04-01-2014, 07:06 PM   #53
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since the tech is not improving, people are not buying. Vicious circle.
people are still buying books and the tech for paper has not improved that much over the last few centuries

really, how much better or sharper should eInk get? does sharpness make any real difference when you can change font size to suit your eyes rather than strain your eyes to read little fonts?

this sharpness sheet comes from movie watchers or game players...

the only real relevant improvements for eInk to me are addition of colors (to read comics and magazines) and perhaps even less glare on the surface. Can't get much better as far as battery economy goes, I guess.

aside from eInk tech itself, I'd like to see usability improvements in touch interface in ereaders. A bar at the bottom to swipe and flip through pages, for instance...
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Old 04-01-2014, 07:26 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eping View Post
I have to consider the companies are just foolish.
I think they can add a lot of function on an eink device, but they just don't, they just think eink is only used for reading ebook.
1 They can add email functions easily, but they don't.
2 They can add a simple writer, they don't
3 They can add a blog writer, they don't
4 They can add mp3/music, they even removed it.
5 They can add GPS, they don't.
(I'm traveling, phone just useless under sunshine, how I want
a eink devices with GPS and map(mono ok)!)
6 There can be games like chess, mines, cross word, soduko,
poker or SLG no need of color screen, but they don't.
Many of above functions even available in old mono screen devices such
Palm.
I have a smartphone with lcd screen for all those functions. Reading kindle books on its 5" screen was fine until I bought the PW. Quite frankly, it's simply a lot more confortable for reading. The creamy eInk surface screen almost screams to me: "lick me"

Besides screen estate (a non-issue with tablets sure), the ereader also offers excellent reading under any lighting conditions and that truly awesome battery economy...
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Old 04-01-2014, 07:27 PM   #55
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They don't think they're being used only for books, they know it.
If they is Amazon, they certainly know exactly how much money is being spent, at Amazon.com,. on newspapers, and how much on books, for any given device. And they know how much content is being sent to Kindle.com addresses. But how do we know?

You might say that, just from reading MobileRead, the vast majority are using eReaders to consume fiction. But how do we know MobileRead is typical?

I say this with a little bias since I am a highly text-oriented news junkie.

Quote:
Originally Posted by robko View Post
I think the biggest factor that will likely allow e-ink readers to survive (maybe only as a niche market, but survive nonetheless) is the fact that book content being produced for the devices replacing it is in a format (largely) that works on them.
I buy this. Even if the newest EPUB and Kindle formats won't work on older devices, it probably will cost little to keep on providing them with simplified versions. This is a big contrast to what happened, say, with 8-tracks, where it would have cost a lot to manufacturer tiny batches of product and then distribute to thousands of physical stores.
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Old 04-01-2014, 11:33 PM   #56
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They can and they did; then they removed them, because those features were largely ignored.
Then the next question would be "WHY" was it ignored?
Was it truly because the majority thought of it as worthless, or perhaps because it wasn't taken serious by the developers and implemented only halfway?

From what I've seen so far (a probably quite limited POV), most readers have rather good hardware, but the software looks as if made by amateurs.
It works well enough, true, but there rarely is the feeling of cutting edge technology, or even well thought-out implementation.
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Old 04-02-2014, 03:15 PM   #57
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For exactly these reasons, the eink devices will drop off the face of the earth in 5 years. Those of us who adore our ereaders for their simplicity and ease of reading have become the niche market now. The general type of people buying ereaders, that I see locally, not only take care of their devices (thus not breaking them often), but also use stuff until it dies. Lots of you are still using Sony's that were bought more than 5 years ago. I'm sure there are plenty of others who will use their Kindles, Nooks and other devices until they die. Then they will go to replace them and ereaders will be history. Remember, MBAs are running the show and a flat market means failure in their greedy brains.

Quote:
Secondly, an ereader is a single purpose device that does its job really well. Once you've bought a clock for your house how often do you upgrade it? Once every twenty years? Ereaders are in a similar situation. I couldn't go back to a 2009 tablet but I could use my old PRS 650 quite happily for the next 10 years.
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Old 04-02-2014, 03:25 PM   #58
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Secondly, an ereader is a single purpose device that does its job really well. Once you've bought a clock for your house how often do you upgrade it? Once every twenty years? Ereaders are in a similar situation. I couldn't go back to a 2009 tablet but I could use my old PRS 650 quite happily for the next 10 years.
For exactly these reasons, the eink devices will drop off the face of the earth in 5 years. Those of us who adore our ereaders for their simplicity and ease of reading have become the niche market now. The general type of people buying ereaders, that I see locally, not only take care of their devices (thus not breaking them often), but also use stuff until it dies. Lots of you are still using Sony's that were bought more than 5 years ago. I'm sure there are plenty of others who will use their Kindles, Nooks and other devices until they die. Then they will go to replace them and ereaders will be history. Remember, MBAs are running the show and a flat market means failure in their greedy brains.
And yet, people still buy clocks, and so people sell them too. Just not as many, and repeat customers tend to be the exception, except once every 5/10/15 years.

There will always be new people being born and needing clocks/developing the love of reading/needing kindle|Kobo|Sony|Nook.
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Old 04-02-2014, 03:53 PM   #59
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Why would I buy a new one? The one I have works fine. There are no physical changes that it needs which is what most mean by an upgrade. It's like paper books, the concept of a upgrade is pretty meaningless. I never even bothered with changing to a touch screen or a light. The software could use some tweaking but other than better library management simpler is better. Eink is like bound paper to display print. That is all it needs to do and how much could that be improved? What's with the idea that everything needs constant "upgrades".

Eink has a reflectance of something like 40%. Paper has reflectance of 80-100+%. DPI for paperwhite is around 200 vs 300 or 600 laser printer. When eink looks as good as the output I get from my $100 laser printer, they can stop improving.
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Old 04-02-2014, 09:41 PM   #60
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For exactly these reasons, the eink devices will drop off the face of the earth in 5 years. Those of us who adore our ereaders for their simplicity and ease of reading have become the niche market now. The general type of people buying ereaders, that I see locally, not only take care of their devices (thus not breaking them often), but also use stuff until it dies. Lots of you are still using Sony's that were bought more than 5 years ago. I'm sure there are plenty of others who will use their Kindles, Nooks and other devices until they die. Then they will go to replace them and ereaders will be history. Remember, MBAs are running the show and a flat market means failure in their greedy brains.
That's me - I keep my stuff for a long time. I sure hope eink is still available in the future; I don't like reading on a computer/tablet screen.
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