Register Guidelines E-Books Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   MobileRead Forums > E-Book Software > Sigil

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 03-25-2014, 08:08 PM   #1
Gregg Bell
Gregg Bell
Gregg Bell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Gregg Bell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Gregg Bell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Gregg Bell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Gregg Bell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Gregg Bell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Gregg Bell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Gregg Bell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Gregg Bell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Gregg Bell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Gregg Bell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Gregg Bell's Avatar
 
Posts: 898
Karma: 3405736
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Itasca, Illinois
Device: none
Does it matter to Sigil what type of file I start out with?

My process used to be: Word .doc--> html ("web page filtered" done in Word). Then I open the html in Sigil. It's worked great. But now I'm using LibreOffice to compose. But will my .odt (still not sure how I will convert it to .html or perhaps I'll go straight to epub via Writer2Epub--open to suggestions) work as well as my .doc as a starting point? Are there any technical glitches that come along with using .odt as a starting point?

And on a similar vein of thought. I've like editing in Calibre's Edit Epub program. If I edit there, are there any complications (code-wise or otherwise) when I open that epub in Sigil? Thanks.

Last edited by Gregg Bell; 03-25-2014 at 08:12 PM. Reason: adding something
Gregg Bell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2014, 08:37 PM   #2
DiapDealer
Grand Sorcerer
DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
DiapDealer's Avatar
 
Posts: 9,408
Karma: 43171350
Join Date: Jan 2010
Device: Nexus 7, Kindle Fire HD
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregg Bell View Post
And on a similar vein of thought. I've like editing in Calibre's Edit Epub program. If I edit there, are there any complications (code-wise or otherwise) when I open that epub in Sigil? Thanks.
Yes. There could very well be complications. To be perfectly honest, you're not going to want to go back to Sigil once you've been editing in calibre. Sigil to calibre will be fairly safe, but calibre to Sigil will be fraught with peril.
DiapDealer is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Advertisement
Old 03-25-2014, 09:27 PM   #3
eschwartz
Irrational Optimist
eschwartz ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.eschwartz ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.eschwartz ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.eschwartz ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.eschwartz ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.eschwartz ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.eschwartz ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.eschwartz ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.eschwartz ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.eschwartz ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.eschwartz ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
eschwartz's Avatar
 
Posts: 7,352
Karma: 12814281
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: The Beaten Path, USA, Roundworld, This Side of Infinity
Device: Kindle Touch fw5.3.7 (Wifi only)
To be specific, Sigil has a long-standing issue with handling   (non-breaking space). calibre handles the problem by converting to unicode characters, Sigil does different things depending which version you use -- and none of them are compatible with each other, though calibre will fix what's left afterward.
eschwartz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2014, 12:26 AM   #4
Gregg Bell
Gregg Bell
Gregg Bell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Gregg Bell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Gregg Bell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Gregg Bell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Gregg Bell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Gregg Bell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Gregg Bell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Gregg Bell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Gregg Bell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Gregg Bell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Gregg Bell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Gregg Bell's Avatar
 
Posts: 898
Karma: 3405736
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Itasca, Illinois
Device: none
Quote:
Originally Posted by DiapDealer View Post
Yes. There could very well be complications. To be perfectly honest, you're not going to want to go back to Sigil once you've been editing in calibre. Sigil to calibre will be fairly safe, but calibre to Sigil will be fraught with peril.
Thanks DiapDealer
Gregg Bell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2014, 12:34 AM   #5
Gregg Bell
Gregg Bell
Gregg Bell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Gregg Bell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Gregg Bell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Gregg Bell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Gregg Bell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Gregg Bell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Gregg Bell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Gregg Bell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Gregg Bell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Gregg Bell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Gregg Bell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Gregg Bell's Avatar
 
Posts: 898
Karma: 3405736
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Itasca, Illinois
Device: none
Quote:
Originally Posted by eschwartz View Post
To be specific, Sigil has a long-standing issue with handling   (non-breaking space). calibre handles the problem by converting to unicode characters, Sigil does different things depending which version you use -- and none of them are compatible with each other, though calibre will fix what's left afterward.
Thanks eschwartz. It's ironic. You hear so many people praising Calibre and at the same time so many people saying it's terrible. But what about my first question. Does it matter whether I start with .doc or .odt? Since I've never had any problems with the process I stated in my op I'm tempted to stay with it (and that means .doc), but, as you know, I've gone Linux so I'm wondering if .odt is going to be just as good as .doc. Thanks.
Gregg Bell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2014, 12:51 AM   #6
eschwartz
Irrational Optimist
eschwartz ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.eschwartz ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.eschwartz ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.eschwartz ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.eschwartz ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.eschwartz ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.eschwartz ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.eschwartz ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.eschwartz ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.eschwartz ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.eschwartz ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
eschwartz's Avatar
 
Posts: 7,352
Karma: 12814281
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: The Beaten Path, USA, Roundworld, This Side of Infinity
Device: Kindle Touch fw5.3.7 (Wifi only)
The difference will basically be down to how well written the converter is. Kovid's DOCX conversion with calibre is very well written and produces beautiful output, but uses unique style names which do not make it easier to edit after the fact.

Toxaris' addon for Word and writer2epub both produce EPUBs that many people find useful, but I don't know which one is *better*.
eschwartz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2014, 03:29 PM   #7
Gregg Bell
Gregg Bell
Gregg Bell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Gregg Bell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Gregg Bell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Gregg Bell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Gregg Bell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Gregg Bell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Gregg Bell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Gregg Bell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Gregg Bell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Gregg Bell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Gregg Bell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Gregg Bell's Avatar
 
Posts: 898
Karma: 3405736
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Itasca, Illinois
Device: none
Quote:
Originally Posted by eschwartz View Post
The difference will basically be down to how well written the converter is. Kovid's DOCX conversion with calibre is very well written and produces beautiful output, but uses unique style names which do not make it easier to edit after the fact.

Toxaris' addon for Word and writer2epub both produce EPUBs that many people find useful, but I don't know which one is *better*.
Thanks eschwartz. I just read about all these weird hyphenation issues with Calibre (eg. mothe-r) at the ends of lines, and so I'm wanting to stay with Sigil. But am I okay starting with .odt, then say doing the Writer2Epub then to Sigil? I just need a process that works for me (with no booby traps that show up in ereaders once the book is out there).
Gregg Bell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2014, 04:04 PM   #8
DiapDealer
Grand Sorcerer
DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
DiapDealer's Avatar
 
Posts: 9,408
Karma: 43171350
Join Date: Jan 2010
Device: Nexus 7, Kindle Fire HD
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregg Bell View Post
Thanks eschwartz. I just read about all these weird hyphenation issues with Calibre (eg. mothe-r) at the ends of lines, and so I'm wanting to stay with Sigil.
Calibre's editor has no more influence on how/where hyphenation occurs than any other editor does. If you're not inserting soft hyphens in the text, or hyphen properties in the CSS (neither of which calibre's editor does automagically BTW), then hyphenation is entirely controlled by the device/app the ebook is being read on.
DiapDealer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2014, 08:30 PM   #9
Hitch
Bookmaker & Cat Slave
Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Hitch's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,586
Karma: 14407087
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Device: Kindle2, iPad, KindleFire and NookColor
Quote:
Originally Posted by DiapDealer View Post
Calibre's editor has no more influence on how/where hyphenation occurs than any other editor does. If you're not inserting soft hyphens in the text, or hyphen properties in the CSS (neither of which calibre's editor does automagically BTW), then hyphenation is entirely controlled by the device/app the ebook is being read on.
Ixnay on the soft-hypens-ay. BAD.

P.S., Gregg?

Well, it matters if you're tying to use a Tiff file, sure. Otherwise, stop thinking about the GUI, and think only about what's underneath: the HTML. What you are asking here is essentially: Does the color of the car affect the quality of the engine inside it?

And the answer is, no; the color of the car doesn't affect the quality of the engine inside it; in your particular case, the care you take in putting the engine in, in the FIRST place, affects the final quality of the engine when it's output from OO or LO or Word or Pages or Bob's Big-Boy Word Processor.

Right? Styles = CSS. CSS = "how stuff looks." Styles being mapped to ELEMENTS, like paragraphs versus headings versus blockquotes, will affect how the input works. Don't use paragraph styles, designed to "look big" as chapter heads; use HEADER styles. Don't use paragraph styles with double-indents as blockquotes; use blockquotes (if that's available as a style). Use LISTS, not typed stuff, for lists. Numero Uno Big Bookmaker Rule: first think about what it IS; then worry about what it looks like later. THAT, far more than OO versus LO versus Word, etc., will "matter" to Sigil.

IMHO.

Hitch
Hitch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2014, 09:01 PM   #10
DiapDealer
Grand Sorcerer
DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
DiapDealer's Avatar
 
Posts: 9,408
Karma: 43171350
Join Date: Jan 2010
Device: Nexus 7, Kindle Fire HD
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hitch View Post
Ixnay on the soft-hypens-ay. BAD.
Oh, you'll get no arguments from me.

I was just trying to point out the only ways to affect hyphenation from within the epub itself--and why calibre's editor (or any editor for that matter) simply CAN'T affect hyphenation without employing either of those things.

Unless the language is being set wrong. Doesn't some reading software use the language setting to use the proper hyphenation dictionaries for that language?

Last edited by DiapDealer; 03-26-2014 at 09:04 PM.
DiapDealer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2014, 09:53 PM   #11
PeterT
Taking a break; Fed up
PeterT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.PeterT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.PeterT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.PeterT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.PeterT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.PeterT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.PeterT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.PeterT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.PeterT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.PeterT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.PeterT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
PeterT's Avatar
 
Posts: 7,177
Karma: 45264785
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Toronto
Device: Wife: Touch, Arc, Vox Me: Nexus 7, Glo
So Hitch, i suppose what you are saying is just WRITE in a strict NOTEPAD type program; NO markup on the text AT ALL, then, when the basic work IS finished, copy the text into the eBook editor of your choice, and do the markups, assigning of styles etc there?
PeterT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2014, 09:55 PM   #12
eschwartz
Irrational Optimist
eschwartz ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.eschwartz ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.eschwartz ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.eschwartz ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.eschwartz ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.eschwartz ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.eschwartz ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.eschwartz ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.eschwartz ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.eschwartz ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.eschwartz ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
eschwartz's Avatar
 
Posts: 7,352
Karma: 12814281
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: The Beaten Path, USA, Roundworld, This Side of Infinity
Device: Kindle Touch fw5.3.7 (Wifi only)
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterT View Post
So Hitch, i suppose what you are saying is just WRITE in a strict NOTEPAD type program; NO markup on the text AT ALL, then, when the basic work IS finished, copy the text into the eBook editor of your choice, and do the markups, assigning of styles etc there?
It would give very clean, well-formatted output!



In all seriousness, though, that is exactly the idea behind markdown.
eschwartz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2014, 10:50 PM   #13
PeterT
Taking a break; Fed up
PeterT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.PeterT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.PeterT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.PeterT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.PeterT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.PeterT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.PeterT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.PeterT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.PeterT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.PeterT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.PeterT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
PeterT's Avatar
 
Posts: 7,177
Karma: 45264785
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Toronto
Device: Wife: Touch, Arc, Vox Me: Nexus 7, Glo
Quote:
Originally Posted by eschwartz View Post
In all seriousness, though, that is exactly the idea behind markdown.
Exactly! (And yes I have used Markdown when coding content for a website a few years back; the site had been coded in a CMS that included markdown as an option for document entry, and when I joined it they were already using markdown.)
PeterT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2014, 12:42 AM   #14
Hitch
Bookmaker & Cat Slave
Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Hitch's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,586
Karma: 14407087
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Device: Kindle2, iPad, KindleFire and NookColor
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterT View Post
Exactly! (And yes I have used Markdown when coding content for a website a few years back; the site had been coded in a CMS that included markdown as an option for document entry, and when I joined it they were already using markdown.)
I would, if it weren't such a giant pain in the ass to use Markdown. As I've said, more than once, I use Markdown both in my customer service system (150-300/mails/day) and our production management system (literally, thousands of notifications/week), of TWO different kinds (one uses single paired asterisks for italics, and double-asties for bold, the other uses underscores for italics, and single-pair asterisks for bold, different things for headers, bq's, etc....), and it's very tiring to write/use, in my opinion.

is it fine for a few paragraphs? Yes, albeit annoying. Is it a giant paint in the tuchus to use for 100K words? ABSOLUTELY. Would I ever write a book in it? NOT IN THIS OR ANY OTHER LIFETIME.

If one is OCD, and needs that level of visually-reinforced structure, great. I don't. {shrug}. I can create perfectly clean styles in Word, (or RTF and about 10 other formats), output them and get clean content. I don't have to see paragraph tags wrapped around everything. I mean, seriously, folks, think about what you're saying: if you're going to write in markdown, why not just write the damn HTML in the first place? I'm sure that there's some logical reason for that distinction, but I don't see it. it's like...baby-step HTML. Mini-ML. Sheesh, why bother?

P.S.: Yes, guys, I get the humor. You mean well, even if you are completely and utterly wrong. I'll love ya anyway.

Hitch
Hitch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2014, 03:26 AM   #15
Gregg Bell
Gregg Bell
Gregg Bell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Gregg Bell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Gregg Bell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Gregg Bell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Gregg Bell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Gregg Bell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Gregg Bell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Gregg Bell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Gregg Bell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Gregg Bell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Gregg Bell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Gregg Bell's Avatar
 
Posts: 898
Karma: 3405736
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Itasca, Illinois
Device: none
Quote:
Originally Posted by DiapDealer View Post
Calibre's editor has no more influence on how/where hyphenation occurs than any other editor does. If you're not inserting soft hyphens in the text, or hyphen properties in the CSS (neither of which calibre's editor does automagically BTW), then hyphenation is entirely controlled by the device/app the ebook is being read on.
No, don't use soft hyphens at all in text or CSS. Thanks for the info.
Gregg Bell is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
cannot start sigil weedfreak Sigil 3 10-16-2012 06:19 AM
Calibre won't start - KeyError: <type 'tuple'> anthonyliu Calibre 2 10-08-2012 04:26 AM
Sigil will not start menders Sigil 16 04-17-2012 01:14 AM
Sigil type program for mobi mr ploppy Kindle Formats 7 10-22-2010 01:45 PM
Display File Type and Sort by Type pragmortal Calibre 7 09-21-2009 09:07 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:10 PM.


MobileRead.com is a privately owned, operated and funded community.