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Old 03-26-2014, 10:55 AM   #31
fjtorres
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Originally Posted by tubemonkey View Post
It's not acceptable; but given the nature of this industry, it's always wise to download and strip the DRM off all of your digital purchases. You never know when they'll suddenly close shop or 'lose' your purchases.
Especially for outfits that rely on external suppliers.
It would be inexcusable for a walled garden vendor that controls their servers but a generic epub vendor is at the mercy of Adobe.
Odds are Adobe pulled the plug on them early.
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Old 03-26-2014, 10:58 AM   #32
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Odds are Adobe pulled the plug on them early.
Yep - if they stopped paying their licence fee for Adobe Content Server, they'd be shut down.
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Old 03-26-2014, 01:58 PM   #33
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I got 14 emails from them, but according to my order history have never bought a book. I have 22¢ in rewards so I assume I bought something. I always download and strip DRM right away, so whatever it was I have it backed up.

However, the average ebook buyer that doesn't know about DRM-stripping and counting on their books to always be there is just going to be screwed.
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Old 03-26-2014, 03:29 PM   #34
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No, I'm saying it's sensible. Never trust a single source for anything. Always have a backup. That way your files are in YOUR hands, and not somebody else's. Of course we all hope that bookstores won't go out of business, but experience shows us that they can, and do.
It seems the newer ebook stores are app based. Zola, Copia, Oyster, Blinkbox. Is it possible to download their ebooks to a PC, remove DRM and back-up your purchases?

Last edited by Fbone; 03-26-2014 at 05:43 PM. Reason: typo
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Old 03-26-2014, 04:00 PM   #35
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That's why I'd be wary of buying from such stores. If you can't make a backup, it's not really yours.
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Old 03-26-2014, 06:48 PM   #36
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Diesel's homepage is now showing the closure notice.

Getting an email from them would have been nice as opposed to finding out about the closure here.

When I logged in I got full access to My Account including My Wish List (something that BoB didn't give access to) & downloads seem to be working for the items I tested (DRM & non-DRM titles).

If you can't see your books in the Bookshelf, don't forget to change the 'By order date' to ALL and click on 'Filter' in the filter section at the top of page.
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Old 03-26-2014, 07:24 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by PurpleStar View Post
It wouldn't surprise me if they did shut down. Many of the major publishers don't have their books for sale at Diesel anymore.
Many of the books I DID buy there in the past had become US only, causing me to go shop at Kobo.

Another one bites the dust. BoB, and now Diesel. The non-Amazon stores where I can shop that are relevant, taking price into account, are wearing rather thin. Some, such as ebooks.com and Omnilit are noticably more expensive with many books, and others either don't accept orders from outside the UK/US, or are just Kobo front-ends.

Fortunately there's (still) DRM removal, and I have a TBR of over 800 books which should last me for about 15 years at least.

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I got an email from them about it. They added at the end that Diesel may be back in a different form sometime in the future, though they didn't give any date when that might be either.
BoB said that too. The only thing you can do is log into your account. I think BoB, and Diesel, will both shut down permanently after the domain registration expires.
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Old 03-26-2014, 07:29 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by Fbone View Post
And now we have Amazon with B&N, Google and Kobo having negligible sales. For the e-ink ereader there isn't much left.

Although, somehow ebooks.com and ebookmall.com are still in business. I wonder how they manage it.
If anybody would have said to me, in 1995: "In about 25 years, there will only be one bookstore in the entire world, and you won't even own the books you buy," I would have called some whitecoats to get the poor sod locked up.

Now see what's happening.

The internet is the best thing that ever happened to the world.

It's also the worst.
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Old 03-26-2014, 07:54 PM   #39
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It's possible but after 3 years one would think they would have plenty of time to work out a deal especially for a generic epub e-tailer. Diesel didn't sell The Hunger Games series by Scholastic a non-Agency publisher. Or it's likely Diesel (and BoB) didn't like the terms the publishers offered.

I also suspect that there is some hidden or unusually high cost to running an online ebook store. Something we aren't aware of for all these stores to close. How many ebooks does a site have to sell to cover costs?
If the publishing world is still run the way it used to be, smaller outfits do not get the same deals as the bigger ones. Local, non-chain bookstores have complained about it for YEARS. They can't compete oftimes because they aren't given the same deals as a B&N.

I remember asking the local bookstore here in Austin if the would carry Jim Hines' books. Their answer was a flat out "No." They said I could order any book I liked and they would get it in for me, but they were not interested in carrying the series or in the bookmarks I wanted to drop off for him. Not that B&N was much better. They didn't want the bookmarks, but they did carry plan on carrying the series. I bought it from them rather than drive all the way to the independent.

In talking to several stories, including those who carry used and new, their answer was always the same: They don't get the same margins as the larger folks so they can't carry much inventory and they work their inventory differently.

I would imagine it was/is the same for ebooks. The smaller outfits may not have had the clout to work deals that made sense for them.

Eventually I suspect that publishers will be selling most, if not all, ebooks from their own sites. They need distributors a whole lot less than they used to. It's all a matter of whether they can reliably get people to their site to browse.

Even I buy direct from some publishers now--depends on the deals. It's gotten easier to shop anywhere, anytime and just in the past year I've started buying books multiple places. I don't even hesitate anymore.
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Old 03-26-2014, 08:02 PM   #40
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Now see what's happening.

The internet is the best thing that ever happened to the world.

It's also the worst.
This isn't something you can blame on the internet.
Both BoB and Diesel are pointing the finger at the PriceFix conspiracy--and suing over it--with rather plausible arguments.

I'm not sure they have all the documentary evidence to prevail--plus US antitrust is about consumer protection first and foremost--but there are precedents that suggest they have enough of a case to get to trial, at least.
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Old 03-26-2014, 08:17 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by fjtorres View Post
This isn't something you can blame on the internet.
Both BoB and Diesel are pointing the finger at the PriceFix conspiracy--and suing over it--with rather plausible arguments.
This is a whole new business environment and some of the players are still trying to figure out how to turn a profit. And, of course, it didn't help the little businesses when the big publishers decided to try to change the rules.
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Old 03-26-2014, 08:45 PM   #42
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This isn't something you can blame on the internet.
Oh yes you can.

In the past, a retailer only had local competition. If a product was €50 (which would have been 110 Dutch Guilders in 1995) cheaper 200 miles away, nobody would know. Now, people get stuff at the other side of the world if the price difference is €2, especially if the products are digital.

On the one hand, the internet is giving us more and more choices regarding shopping, and is lowering prices due to world-wide competition. I have bought stuff over the internet that I wouldn't have even known that existed, without it.

On the other hand the internet is destroying all but the very cheapest and/or well-stocked sellers.

Now, combine the two. I don't buy a lot in The Netherlands anymore. In fact, I'm awaiting two deliveries from the USA, one from the UK, and two from Hong Kong. Most of the stuff I buy in a brick & mortar store are bought in Germany (I'm just across the border). This is jbecause I would either be unable to get the products over here in the Netherlands, or the price difference compared to other countries would be enormous. In fact, I'm helping to destroy the Dutch economy.

(Example: I've bought hundreds of ebooks in the last 2,5 years, at prices around €1.50 to €3. In the Netherlands, those books would have cost me upward of €7.95 a piece.)

Last edited by Katsunami; 03-26-2014 at 08:48 PM.
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Old 03-26-2014, 09:40 PM   #43
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Oh yes you can.

In the past, a retailer only had local competition. If a product was €50 (which would have been 110 Dutch Guilders in 1995) cheaper 200 miles away, nobody would know. Now, people get stuff at the other side of the world if the price difference is €2, especially if the products are digital.

On the one hand, the internet is giving us more and more choices regarding shopping, and is lowering prices due to world-wide competition. I have bought stuff over the internet that I wouldn't have even known that existed, without it.

On the other hand the internet is destroying all but the very cheapest and/or well-stocked sellers.

Now, combine the two. I don't buy a lot in The Netherlands anymore. In fact, I'm awaiting two deliveries from the USA, one from the UK, and two from Hong Kong. Most of the stuff I buy in a brick & mortar store are bought in Germany (I'm just across the border). This is jbecause I would either be unable to get the products over here in the Netherlands, or the price difference compared to other countries would be enormous. In fact, I'm helping to destroy the Dutch economy.

(Example: I've bought hundreds of ebooks in the last 2,5 years, at prices around €1.50 to €3. In the Netherlands, those books would have cost me upward of €7.95 a piece.)
All true. But it wasn't international competition or globalization that put those folks out of business. It was good old-fashioned, *local*, pre-internet collusion to fix prices. Not every economic sob-story is due to globalization: some are just due to local greed.

Diesel, BoB--maybe other indie ebookstores--they'll have their day in court soon enough. And then we'll see what killed them.
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Old 03-27-2014, 12:16 AM   #44
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Diesel, BoB--maybe other indie ebookstores--they'll have their day in court soon enough. And then we'll see what killed them.
It'll be interesting to hear where they believe their customers went during Agency period. As generic epub retailers, people had few options. They couldn't shop at Amazon, B&N or Apple. Devices were probably incompatible. Sony, Google, Kobo and the rest of the indie stores have "negligible" sales in the US.

I suspect it was the price drop of ereaders and selection of tablets that contributed much to their decline.
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Old 03-27-2014, 06:44 AM   #45
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I only bought three books from Diesel, all late last year, and also got well over a dozen e-mails, so it doesn't seem to be at all corresponding to how many books one bought from there.

As I downloaded all of them immediately, I didn't even try to check if I could still do it.

A pity; I only really discovered Diesel in December, and it didn't have a very good choice for my preferences, but it's always good to have more options. With BoB gone as well, and most ebook shops being either US-only or UK-only (or open to customers in only a handful of countries), Kobo and Amazon have really become my only real choices now.
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