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Old 03-02-2014, 01:56 PM   #31
Katsunami
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Originally Posted by Graham View Post
I'd probably be OK with doing this, but I'd want it clear that no comments should be made until the author requested them. In the early stages this would be a valuable insight into what the author was doing, but I know I feel very vulnerable about what's written until I get the story to a point where I'm happy that it's a coherent 'first draft'.

I've also learned my lesson... don't show said first draft to significant other until at least the next day. It's very painful to have the glow of achieving that completed draft shattered by critical comment before you've even slept on it!
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Originally Posted by arjaybe View Post
Me too. I'm reluctant to talk about it before it's done.
We can do two things:

1: Post a story in progress, using a version number:

- My Short Story - 0.1.doc
- My Short Story - 0.2.doc
...

You may read and watch the writing process, but keep your mouth shut until version 1.0.

2: Agree on a specific post date, which is the very last date at which people can post their final stories (= done, but not critiqued and not edited yet).

I'm fine either way.
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Old 03-02-2014, 02:14 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Katsunami View Post
We can do two things:

1: Post a story in progress, using a version number:

- My Short Story - 0.1.doc
- My Short Story - 0.2.doc
...

You may read and watch the writing process, but keep your mouth shut until version 1.0.

2: Agree on a specific post date, which is the very last date at which people can post their final stories (= done, but not critiqued and not edited yet).

I'm fine either way.
I'd be happy with that.

It sounds like we need a shared Dropbox folder with a set of sub-folders, one for each story. We could also have an author's brief readme.doc in each folder where we could note our current thoughts and the story status.

Are we all able to agree on .doc as the file format?

How are you envisaging handling the reviewing process? By email, with the whole team copied in?

Graham
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Old 03-02-2014, 02:41 PM   #33
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Are we all able to agree on .doc as the file format?
Graham
I'd prefer .odt or even .txt.
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Old 03-02-2014, 03:13 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by arjaybe View Post
I'd prefer .odt or even .txt.
OK, maybe people should use whatever they're comfortable with during the review phase as long as everyone has a way to open the files.

It's worth knowing what people prefer, though, as I'll be working in Google Docs for one story and the other's currently in Scrivener, which means that I'll be saving into a different format for the Dropbox version anyway.

Actually, saving as pdf might make most sense for me and to make it easy for others to read.

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Old 03-02-2014, 04:07 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Graham View Post
I'd be happy with that.
With what are you happy: versioning without comments up to version 1.0, or immediately posting the 1.0 version at a certain date?

Quote:
It sounds like we need a shared Dropbox folder with a set of sub-folders, one for each story. We could also have an author's brief readme.doc in each folder where we could note our current thoughts and the story status.
I was thinking along those lines as well.

Quote:
Are we all able to agree on .doc as the file format?
I don't really care, as long as LibreOffice can open it without messing up.

It would be adviseable to NOT use any layout, because it's a hassle to reconcile different styles and layouts when combining documents.

The final output of the anthology will be Word 2003 DOC-format, because that is what Smashwords seems to prefer.

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How are you envisaging handling the reviewing process? By email, with the whole team copied in?
I'm thinking that at some point, we'll set a date at which the final draft will be posted into the author's Dropbox folder. Then we'll all pick one story (the same one) and read it. We all post a file with our comments into the author's subfolder. The author can react to these comments by updating each file, and he/she can edit the story and post a new version, pointing out the changes. We read it again (the changes, mostly), and post comments in the comment file. And so on...

After we all decide we're done with reviewing and editing this story, it'll become final and can't be changed anymore. Then we'll move to the next one and repeat.

This process could be the longest part of the creation of the anthology.

After all stories have been reviewed and edited in this way, I'll download the final ones and start building the ebook.

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Originally Posted by Graham View Post
Actually, saving as pdf might make most sense for me and to make it easy for others to read.
Yes, but it wouldn't be wise to post the final version (the one that gets into the anthology) as a PDF. I'd highly prefer that you'd post that in ODT, DOC, or TXT format.
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Old 03-02-2014, 05:03 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by Katsunami View Post
With what are you happy: versioning without comments up to version 1.0, or immediately posting the 1.0 version at a certain date?
Versioning without comments up to v1.0, unless the author specifically asks for help. But also having a target date for v1.0 to be there by.

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Originally Posted by Katsunami View Post
I'm thinking that at some point, we'll set a date at which the final draft will be posted into the author's Dropbox folder. Then we'll all pick one story (the same one) and read it. We all post a file with our comments into the author's subfolder. The author can react to these comments by updating each file, and he/she can edit the story and post a new version, pointing out the changes. We read it again (the changes, mostly), and post comments in the comment file. And so on...
I think the commenting in the folders could work, but doing it one story at a time sounds unnecessary and we'd need to wait for everyone to complete their comments. I suspect we'd end up with long delays.

The stories are going to reach their draft v1.0 at different times naturally, and I think this could all work in parallel. Some stories will go through multiple drafts and review, others might just need tweaking.

Can I suggest that there are two review phases? In the first, people shouldn't get too hung up on grammar, spelling, sentence construction, etc., but instead concentrate on plot and character. Does the story work? Are there plot holes? Do we care about the protagonist?

There's no point spending time line editing while you're rewriting things.

Then in the second phase we can concentrate on line editing and polishing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katsunami View Post
After we all decide we're done with reviewing and editing this story, it'll become final and can't be changed anymore. Then we'll move to the next one and repeat.
I think authors will always want to update and tweak, so I don't think we can set any story as final until we're ready to assemble the ebook.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katsunami View Post
Yes, but it wouldn't be wise to post the final version (the one that gets into the anthology) as a PDF. I'd highly prefer that you'd post that in ODT, DOC, or TXT format.
Yes, that's no problem. The final version can be supplied as a Word 2003 .doc.

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Old 03-02-2014, 05:11 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by Graham View Post
Versioning without comments up to v1.0, unless the author specifically asks for help. But also having a target date for v1.0 to be there by.
OK, fine by me

If people want to show what they're doing, they'll just post the 0.x versions. If they want help with those, just ask.
People who don't want anybody to see what they're doing until version 1.0, just post that one as soon as you reach it.

Quote:
I think the commenting in the folders...
...
...concentrate on line editing and polishing.
Sounds fine by me. It's logical to do the big stuff at first, and then, in a second pass, fix spelling, grammar and style.

Quote:
I think authors will always want to update and tweak, so I don't think we can set any story as final until we're ready to assemble the ebook.
With "final" I mean that there shouldn't be any huge changes to the story anymore. Not inserting or removing entire scenes, or suddenly creating another character. That would defeat the editing process.

It's OK to change words around here and there, fix spelling or grammar mistakes, clarify passages a bit if necessary; the sort of things that don't drastically change the story.
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Old 03-02-2014, 05:16 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by Katsunami View Post
With "final" I mean that there shouldn't be any huge changes to the story anymore. Not inserting or removing entire scenes, or suddenly creating another character. That would defeat the editing process.

It's OK to change words around here and there, fix spelling or grammar mistakes, clarify passages a bit if necessary; the sort of things that don't drastically change the story.
Yes, that sounds fine.

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Old 03-02-2014, 07:13 PM   #39
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[...]Maybe it would be a good exercise Meeting a deadline often comes down to setting priorities, and discipline. Meeting word length will be determined by what to include or leave out, obviously.

This project could help you to learn to do these things better [...]
I guess everyone will have different expectations of the process. I have no particular interest in forcing deadlines and lengths, I have enough of those sorts of stresses in normal work. I'm mostly curious about the workings of the project you have proposed: how it will work, what effect it might have on the story I contribute, and if it works what will come of it.

I see I'm not the only one that is not inclined to discuss too much until a story is essentially complete. The story I have in mind to contribute is what I consider to be a first draft, it's written and I think it mostly works, but there is definitely room for improvement and things it will be interesting to discuss.

As Graham suggested, it seems to me that much of this may be able to take place in parallel because different submissions will be at different stages ... and it's probably the only way to have it come to completion in any reasonable time.

Since not everyone uses LibreOffice/OpenOffice, it may be necessary to work with .doc or .txt formats (not every version of Word will open .odt). The final merging of each of the different contributions into something suitable for final publication should be an education in itself.
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Old 03-02-2014, 11:49 PM   #40
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Okay, I admit that I skimmed the posts quite a bit. So, what was the final rule: should the stories be sent to Katsunami by PM?
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Old 03-03-2014, 03:53 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by mrmarlowe View Post
Okay, I admit that I skimmed the posts quite a bit. So, what was the final rule: should the stories be sent to Katsunami by PM?
It looks like we'll use DropBox to host and share the stories, with a separate folder for each story, and people will post comments as separate documents in those folders. If so, we've got two options, I think.

Either (1) each author creates their own folders, and shares those folders with the group.

Or (2) someone, presumably Katsunami, creates all the folders, and shares with everyone.

The advantage of option 1 is that we can add new folders as required, without needing to organise it through someone else.

The advantage of option 2 is that only the central organiser would need to know everyone's email addresses and maintain the folder links, and the links would only be maintained in one place - at the top level folder.

I suspect we'll be happy with sharing email addresses anyway, as the comments are bound to trigger one-to-one discussions, but I can see how it would be easier for everyone if one person maintained the shared links.

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Old 03-03-2014, 07:24 AM   #42
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Once the sorting-out process is completed, it would be helpful to make a post referencing to a revised [edited] post #1 in this thread, where all the adjusted information is gathered in one place for easy reference.

This is only a suggestion.
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Old 03-03-2014, 07:35 AM   #43
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I am willing to submit the first Red story, but I am afraid it's too long. (and then there's the Concordance...)

Opinion requested.
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Old 03-03-2014, 08:01 AM   #44
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I am willing to submit the first Red story, but I am afraid it's too long. (and then there's the Concordance...
How much too long? It may come down in editing...

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Old 03-03-2014, 08:04 AM   #45
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Once the sorting-out process is completed, it would be helpful to make a post referencing to a revised [edited] post #1 in this thread, where all the adjusted information is gathered in one place for easy reference.
Makes sense to me. It looks like Katsunami may already be editing post #1, and occasional posts referencing back to that would be helpful.

I'm guessing that this thread will continue with occasional posts reporting progress, and perhaps calling for more authors if we need them.

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