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Old 01-02-2014, 11:53 AM   #16
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And I would like to second Keats.
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Old 01-02-2014, 04:37 PM   #17
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I found that my library has a bilingual version of Les Fleurs du Mal, so I second that.

And as I dearly love Keats, I'll third him.
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Old 01-02-2014, 05:25 PM   #18
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With my last nomination I will fourth Keats.

Quote:
Originally Posted by issybird View Post
Paola, I'm very interested in your assessment of the Divine Comedy translations. Every now and then I check and they all seem flawed in some respect. The most recent translation (that I've read about), by Clive James (!), was well-reviewed in the NYT. I read Ciardi in college and I think that one is still held in good repute.

ETA: I'm ashamed to say I've never heard of Montale or Ungaretti, which I shall have to remedy despite poor translations.
Well, first of all I am biased: especially the Inferno is something that is drilled into each school kid, so even if the words are difficult to understand, it is very musical, so hard to render I guess (it does rhyme). I have had a look around, and for the moment the one that seems closer "music wise" is Dorothy Sayer's translation (I've found it in Penguin).

Montale and Ungaretti: they are roughly the same generation, both fought in the great war.

Montale is probably best described by the motivation for his Nobel Prize for literature 1975, which states
Quote:
"for his distinctive poetry which, with great artistic sensitivity, has interpreted human values under the sign of an outlook on life with no illusions"
You could say he is somewhat negative, and when I say this I think mostly of Ossi di seppia/Cuttlefish bones - he is rather musical, and this is lost in translation.

Ungaretti is very different in style: he is one of our "ermetic" poets, his lines are distilled to the utmost, and so hard to render - this review in the Guardian makes the point much more effectively than I could ever do.
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Old 01-02-2014, 05:57 PM   #19
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Thanks, Paola. That was a fascinating review. I checked my library and it has the Creagh translation of Ungaretti which the reviewer recommended. Also Galassi for Montale; I shall have to make do.

My library also has the Italian edition of Ungaretti's war poetry, of special interest to me this centenary year. I think I'll check that out as well, just to get a sense of the language.
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Old 01-02-2014, 08:10 PM   #20
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Yes, interesting review - oh, the difficulties of translating poetry! I'm glad you think the Sayers translation of Dante is okay paola, as that is the one I have.

(Even more off topic, when I finished reading the review, I saw a news item that Elizabeth Jane Howard has died aged 90. I love her books.)
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Old 01-03-2014, 05:16 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by issybird
Thanks, Paola. That was a fascinating review. I checked my library and it has the Creagh translation of Ungaretti which the reviewer recommended. Also Galassi for Montale; I shall have to make do.

My library also has the Italian edition of Ungaretti's war poetry, of special interest to me this centenary year. I think I'll check that out as well, just to get a sense of the language.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bookpossum View Post
Yes, interesting review - oh, the difficulties of translating poetry! I'm glad you think the Sayers translation of Dante is okay paola, as that is the one I have.
Well, don't take me too seriously, though, I am just a reader that happens to be Italian, and have the ring of these poets in the year, but of course these things are highly subjective, and I am sure that the translators, all scholars, have thought on these issues a great deal, unlike me! My "authority" comes from just being Italian, so there are another tens of millions at least as authoritative as me

to get a feel for the language, though, especially with these poets that are extremely well known in Italy, there are some readings on youtube that can give you an idea of how they sound. Here is Ungaretti reading Fratelli/Brothers

http://youtu.be/mi3UGy9BKFs

and below I miei fiumi/My rivers (born in Egypt, then spent time in Paris, finally his variuos heritages coming together in the Isonzo, where he was fighting as a private in the Great War for Italy:
http://youtu.be/8SAegn2KtDc

oops, getting carried away in the nomination thread!!!

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Old 01-03-2014, 06:52 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by issybird View Post

I don't think we have any rules about renominating here; the main club has a six-month rule.

.
I wish I had known that. I would have put Tranströmer up again. Great stuff that.
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Old 01-03-2014, 07:16 AM   #23
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Nice selections!
I have nomination(s), but little access to the internet. On New Years Eve my internal disc broke down....the PC doctor is recovering its data+ change of disc(1 TB, I'm happy to say). Perhaps it will be done today, or else on monday but that'll be too late. Hope for the best.
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Old 01-03-2014, 10:36 AM   #24
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I'll third Larkin.

As to the Burns, I read the article Hamlet53 linked to, and found this nugget about Auld Lang Syne:

Quote:
...The song has been interpreted very differently abroad...in Japan it has the same tune but different lyrics. It is known as “Glow of a Firefly” and is used to usher customers out of shops that are about to close...



ETA-Good luck with your computer desertblues.

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Old 01-03-2014, 01:53 PM   #25
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Oh my, I missed this til now.....can I throw out a couple? Do they have to be Ebooks? Can I nominate my own work.
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Old 01-03-2014, 02:01 PM   #26
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....withdrawn....

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Old 01-03-2014, 02:16 PM   #27
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Quote:
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Oh my, I missed this til now.....can I throw out a couple? Do they have to be Ebooks? Can I nominate my own work.
Sure anyone can nominate books and participate.

Again yes sure.

No need not be an ebook.

Is your work "literary?"
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Old 01-03-2014, 03:29 PM   #28
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Sure anyone can nominate books and participate.

Again yes sure.

No need not be an ebook.

Is your work "literary?"


If Jon were here.....

I'll have to assume so, but we may have to wait a couple of centuries to know for sure.....

but seriously is this really intended to be only 'literary' poetry? (not that we really know what that is...)
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Old 01-03-2014, 03:39 PM   #29
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"What is literature for the purposes of this club? A superior work of lasting merit that enriches the mind. Often it is important, challenging, critically acclaimed. It may be from ancient times to today; it may be from anywhere in the world; it may be obscure or famous, short or long; it may be a story, a novel, a play, a poem, an essay or another written form. If you are unsure if a work would be considered literature, just ask!"

It's always worth asking. In the end nominators and voters are given the task of determining the suitability to the category. In both books clubs there seems to be hits and misses for categories so I wouldn't worry too much about it.

As we've deduced that the waiting period is waived in the literary club, I would like to put forth:

Birthday Letters by Ted Hughes again.

I read it in 2012 and would like a re-read as well as some discussion.
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Old 01-03-2014, 03:50 PM   #30
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I'll withdraw my nomination in that case and will let you all carry on. Sorry I got over-excited there for a moment....you know how those poets are.

Enjoy!
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