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Old 12-24-2013, 04:08 AM   #1
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TOC with Page #

Hello,

Is is possible to make a Table of Contents with page numbers? (view attached image)

I understand that page numbers will vary depending on font sizes, is it possible to get a Toc with page numbers that update depending on font size? javascript possibly?

Thanks,
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Old 12-24-2013, 11:20 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by odedta View Post
Hello,

Is is possible to make a Table of Contents with page numbers? (view attached image)

I understand that page numbers will vary depending on font sizes, is it possible to get a Toc with page numbers that update depending on font size? javascript possibly?

Thanks,
It is not possible in ePub 2 but ePub 3 does support javascript however I don't think it would be worth the effort since the TOC has live links that go to the correct place already. ADE defines fixed page sizes that are more appropriate if you really can to define pages. Each page is about 1024 characters long and provide a fixed page size that is referenceable between users.

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Old 12-24-2013, 12:52 PM   #3
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Do you know of a Javascript library that has some sort of "getPage()" function because I don't know how that works with eBook readers. eBook api? :P
I don't mind writing something from scratch as long as I know how to access the eBook elements. :/
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Old 12-24-2013, 02:00 PM   #4
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I have to wonder what the point IS of having page numbers IF they change as you alter font size.

I know Kobo in effect do this within their kEpub format material that are displayed with the ACCESS engine, but again, fail to see a reason for it. It's not as if you can share page numbers with someone else unless they are using the exact same font and font-size settings on their reader.
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Old 12-24-2013, 03:46 PM   #5
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In MSWord when you look at a table of contents you see the page number of a subject matter and you can use the "Go to" function. In eBook you can see the page number (updated as your font does) and scroll with the bar below to that particular page.

We can also ask why is this option available even in MSWord, but I don't really care about the answer, if it's possible in any document over PC or Mac I expect it to be available in eBooks as well. True, is nothing BUT luxury function.

That being said, I am not asking this for my own amusement, I am asking this because I am making an eBook for someone and they asked if that is possible. I couldn't care less if that function is there or not but when someone else is asking and you're working for them then... you post here I guess
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Old 12-24-2013, 04:29 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by odedta View Post
if it's possible in any document over PC or Mac I expect it to be available in eBooks as well.
I fear you may be in for some disappointment.
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Old 12-24-2013, 04:38 PM   #7
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Perhaps you should think of including a Page-map or PageList -- then the eReader will know what page you're on. And the Kindle at least shows the page numbers (if available) on the active ToC. I don't know about other readers as the only one I have is a Kindle.

You could add the page numbers as regular html in the HTML ToC to correspond to the page numbers you defined in the PageList/Page-map.
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Old 12-24-2013, 04:44 PM   #8
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But why do you need a page number? If it is for scrolling to the correct page, wouldn't you be better of with a normal link?
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Old 12-24-2013, 05:02 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by odedta View Post
In MSWord when you look at a table of contents you see the page number of a subject matter and you can use the "Go to" function. In eBook you can see the page number (updated as your font does) and scroll with the bar below to that particular page.

We can also ask why is this option available even in MSWord, but I don't really care about the answer, if it's possible in any document over PC or Mac I expect it to be available in eBooks as well. True, is nothing BUT luxury function.

That being said, I am not asking this for my own amusement, I am asking this because I am making an eBook for someone and they asked if that is possible. I couldn't care less if that function is there or not but when someone else is asking and you're working for them then... you post here I guess
It's available in Word because Word is creating documents for print. Nor does it automagically update without any input from the user. If you create a linked TOC (or a page-numbered, active TOC) in Word, (with the dot-leaders, let's say, just for fun), and you update the content, you have to manually "tell" the Table of Contents to update, because the TOC markers, in the Word file, have moved.

What you're talking about doing--I mean, think about it--is making something like this work across myriad reading devices, all with different basic operating systems (Droid, Mac, PC, whatever), with different basic e-reading software (ranging from Marvin to ADE to ADE-based to iBooks), some of which have javascript, most of which don't, and let's not forget Amazon, which only has JSON. You want to do this on the fly for devices which have anywhere from 5-10 fonts to choose from, not to mention what happens when a book has a font already embedded in it for the base font, and up to 8 different (no, now, 10 different) font sizes to choose from. I don't actually know how many possible page numbers that results in, but...as someone else here asked, what's the POINT?

Given that on any given reading device, you can click "go to" the TOC, and then simply click the relevant item on the TOC you want to go to, why on earth do you even want the page numbers? What is their actual functionality? Are you seriously saying that if you saw a Word-like TOC, saying that chapter 7 started on "page 142," you'd SCROLL to page 142, instead of clicking "chapter 7" and jumping there, via a regular link?

Sorry, but I absolutely don't understand this. Even in Word, I never "scroll" to the page numbers (or in ePDF's); I use the links to rapidly go to where I want. Why would anyone scroll?

I'm obviously missing something here. What is it?

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Old 12-24-2013, 06:50 PM   #10
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The dead sea scrolls did not have Hyperlinks.


: Wait a Century ! They did not have Page Numbers either

Even Academics seem stuck in the last century.

Chapter/section: Paragraph: Word does not change with any Zoom or aspect

The Bible folk have been doing it this way almost forever because it works
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Old 12-25-2013, 01:45 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by theducks View Post
The dead sea scrolls did not have Hyperlinks.


: Wait a Century ! They did not have Page Numbers either

Even Academics seem stuck in the last century.

Chapter/section: Paragraph: Word does not change with any Zoom or aspect

The Bible folk have been doing it this way almost forever because it works
We're doing a massive conversion of Dante's Inferno, in 3 parts, all written in tercet verse, using both a) line numbers and b) footnoting. For a switch-up, the line numbers will be superscripted (and at the left-margin, not the right, for obvious reasons), and the footnotes shan't be (mostly for finger-ease, at my suggestion).

This methodology (line numbers) seems to work quite well for annotation/discussion. I'd concur with my one Twoo Wuv, Ducky's point, that Chapter/Section/Paragraph also works quite well for any work requiring academic notation reference.

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Old 12-25-2013, 03:37 AM   #12
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@DiapDealer: oh yeah

@eschwartz: Thanks! I'll get right on it!

@Toxaris: Like I said in my previous post, I couldn't care less about it, I was asked if it's possible and that the author wants to have to option if possible.

@Hitch: You make a valid point indeed, same response as I had for Toxaris. However, I do like to note that I came across quite a few word documents with manually made ToCs, I guess because the author does not know MSWord good enough to setup heading and paragraph templates so he/she can use in ToC for later use. So if there is a manual ToC in the document having page number (manually made) is very important, at least in the DOC file.

@theducks:
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Old 12-25-2013, 04:05 AM   #13
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However, I do like to note that I came across quite a few word documents with manually made ToCs, I guess because the author does not know MSWord good enough to setup heading and paragraph templates so he/she can use in ToC for later use.
That is because a lot of writers are still stuck in the typewriter age. They do not want to be bothered with computers. They usually expect these kind of things work automagically and they are not willing to do a half-hour course to get to know some basic tasks which applies to almost all wordprocessors.
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Old 12-25-2013, 06:28 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by odedta View Post

@Hitch: You make a valid point indeed, same response as I had for Toxaris. However, I do like to note that I came across quite a few word documents with manually made ToCs, I guess because the author does not know MSWord good enough to setup heading and paragraph templates so he/she can use in ToC for later use. So if there is a manual ToC in the document having page number (manually made) is very important, at least in the DOC file.
Sorry, I'm not following what you mean, or what the intent of what you wrote is meant to be? Not at all. Frankly, if the Word file is so badly made that it contains a manually-created TOC, it should be redone, if it's to remain as either a Word file, a basis for an ebook, (if someone is going to upload a Word file to, say, NookPress, SW or KDP) or the basis for an ePDF. I cannot think of any situation in which a manually-created TOC is a better choice, for any reason, other than the off-chance that someone is actually planning on using a Word file for a print layout, which of course, is a bad idea for myriad reasons. Even if that were the case, the TOC could be formatted to not look like a linked TOC, but a "manually-created" TOC...so even then, I see no reason why one would leave it that way.

We see manually created TOC's all the time. We simply delete them from the file, as they serve no purpose whatsoever in our business. We don't use them in making our ePUBs or MOBI's, so no reason to leave them. We create ours on the fly, using Sigil, or if (for some crackpot reason) we have to create a TOC manually, we're creating it in a linked fashion anyway.

So, when you say this:

Quote:
So if there is a manual ToC in the document having page number (manually made) is very important, at least in the DOC file.
I don't mean to be dense, but I really don't know what you mean. Why would it be very important? Why not just replace it with a TOC that will auto-update upon request? I am not getting your meaning.

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Old 12-26-2013, 05:32 AM   #15
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Hitch, you are missing the point here.

The author WANTS to have the
Quote:
.............PageNumber
in the TOC, he/she likes the way it looks, that's pretty much it

Regarding this:
Quote:
So if there is a manual ToC in the document having page number (manually made) is very important, at least in the DOC file.
Of course it's important (IN THE DOC FILE), if the TOC is manually made you cannot click the elements and be moved to the correct point, you would have to look at the page number and scroll to that place using the scroller-sidebar in MSWord.
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