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Old 01-02-2014, 01:03 AM   #16
eschwartz
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Originally Posted by Katy Did View Post
True enough, probably on both counts. My point really was just that saying Amazon is generous enough not to partition the PW's internal space is misleading; no, they don't partition that space, they simply allocate all of it to Kindle books. If you want to sideload you have to work around their restrictions. B & N at least do allocate 500MB specifically for sideloaded books, and you don't even need to do anything potentially illegal to make use of it.
It's not misleading at all -- they give you the space to do whatever you want with it. And ePub may be a multi-platform standard, IN TERMS OF USAGE, but it's not really an ePub if it's a kepub, or if it has DRM; and mobi7/8 is just as freely available. In fact, anywhere you can get non-DRM books basically boils down to "anywhere other than the baked in store" and they ALL (i think) provide .mobi/.azw3 format as a download option.

And just for the record, mobi was there first, ePub is the newcomer. It existed long before Kindle, and mobi is NOT a "Kindle Book", it is a MOBI book, which Kindles can read (as can several other readers, see HERE).

Kindle books are books that come from the Kindle Store, just like Nook books are books that come from the Barnes & Noble store. mobi and epub are not either type, they are books that are free as a bird.

Seriously, why do so many people pointlessly hate on MOBI, and pretend that "Industry Standards" actually mean anything? It is a totally different issue altogether.
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Old 01-02-2014, 01:15 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Katy Did View Post
True enough, probably on both counts. My point really was just that saying Amazon is generous enough not to partition the PW's internal space is misleading; no, they don't partition that space, they simply allocate all of it to Kindle books. If you want to sideload you have to work around their restrictions. B & N at least do allocate 500MB specifically for sideloaded books, and you don't even need to do anything potentially illegal to make use of it.
What???

What do I have to do that's illegal to make use of space on a Kindle for sideloaded books? There are tons of places to buy books in Mobi format that can be sideloaded to a Kindle. Those places usually also offer an ePub instead which can easily be converted to Mobi or to KF8/AZW3.
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Old 01-02-2014, 01:32 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by AnemicOak View Post
What???

What do I have to do that's illegal to make use of space on a Kindle for sideloaded books? There are tons of places to buy books in Mobi format that can be sideloaded to a Kindle. Those places usually also offer an ePub instead which can easily be converted to Mobi or to KF8/AZW3.
This is true. Years ago, I was using eink Kindles to directly download books from Project Gutenberg using the onboard browser. It was a bit tedious (I wouldn't do it now) but it showed that sideloading wasn't absolutely necessary in getting non-Amazon books on a Kindle. As you say, there are many sources for purchasing non-Amazon Mobis.

Last edited by TimW; 01-02-2014 at 01:33 AM. Reason: non-Kindle Kindle :/
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Old 01-03-2014, 06:48 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by eschwartz View Post
It's not misleading at all -- they give you the space to do whatever you want with it. And ePub may be a multi-platform standard, IN TERMS OF USAGE, but it's not really an ePub if it's a kepub, or if it has DRM; and mobi7/8 is just as freely available. In fact, anywhere you can get non-DRM books basically boils down to "anywhere other than the baked in store" and they ALL (i think) provide .mobi/.azw3 format as a download option.
Does DRM on an epub prevent you transferring that book to another reader which supports epub? I was under the impression that generally it's possible to read, say, a Kobo book on a Nook (at any rate, the two Kobo books I just transferred to my Nook were readable). If so then for practical purposes, the DRM on an epub makes no difference to the average reader.

Don't confuse what you do as a more competent and experienced reader of ebooks with what the average person does. Most people care whether the book is readable, not whether it has DRM on it. Most people buy from the main sites, they don't go looking specifically for sites which sell non-DRM books*. Most of the main sites - aside from Amazon - sell epub, not mobi. (BTW, I just found out that Waterstones in the UK - who promote and sell Waterstones-branded Kindles in their store - don't even sell Kindle books! They sell epub. Insane).

It's misleading to paint Amazon as generously allowing readers to use the space on a PW for whatever they want because for the average reader, that is simply not the case. The average Kindle user is restricted to Amazon. The average Nook or Kobo user has a much wider choice.

*On that topic, genuine question here: are there DRM-free sites that are practical alternatives to the main sites in terms of the number and range of available books? I ask because I just searched the Diesel e-book store and they didn't have any of the books I wanted (I checked about 10), but I don't know much about these sites so I wondered if there are alternatives - I'd much prefer to buy DRM-free books off the bat if possible rather than removing it later.

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And just for the record, mobi was there first, ePub is the newcomer. It existed long before Kindle, and mobi is NOT a "Kindle Book", it is a MOBI book, which Kindles can read (as can several other readers, see HERE).

Kindle books are books that come from the Kindle Store, just like Nook books are books that come from the Barnes & Noble store. mobi and epub are not either type, they are books that are free as a bird.

Seriously, why do so many people pointlessly hate on MOBI, and pretend that "Industry Standards" actually mean anything? It is a totally different issue altogether.
Who cares which came first? I imagine Amazon could add support for epub easily enough if they chose to. They don't, presumably because they'd prefer people to buy from Amazon, and unlike the other companies they're dominant enough that people will simply accept that restriction.

As to mobi/azw3 not being 'Kindle books', I see that as nitpicking. Those formats are so tightly associated with Amazon (in a way that epub isn't closely associated with any single reader) that for all practical purposes - again, for the average reader - they really are 'Kindle books'.

I don't 'hate on MOBI', I just disagree with the implication Amazon are more generous than B&N or other companies in their allocation of internal space. The fact is all these companies would rather you buy your books from them, and make it somewhat tricky to buy books from elsewhere. By sticking to their own format, Amazon are slightly worse than the others, but largely because they're successful enough that they can afford to do that. Maybe the other companies would do exactly the same thing if they didn't think it would lose them business.

Last edited by Katy Did; 01-03-2014 at 06:58 AM.
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Old 01-03-2014, 03:34 PM   #20
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Does DRM on an epub prevent you transferring that book to another reader which supports epub? I was under the impression that generally it's possible to read, say, a Kobo book on a Nook (at any rate, the two Kobo books I just transferred to my Nook were readable). If so then for practical purposes, the DRM on an epub makes no difference to the average reader.
Yes, it kind of does. Using ADE to sideload books is just as much work as stripping DRM and converting. And the converting part is just as easy/mainstream as downloading the acsm and opening in ADE, then authorizing your device with ADE ID, sideloading.
Quote:
Don't confuse what you do as a more competent and experienced reader of ebooks with what the average person does. Most people care whether the book is readable, not whether it has DRM on it. Most people buy from the main sites, they don't go looking specifically for sites which sell non-DRM books*. Most of the main sites - aside from Amazon - sell epub, not mobi. (BTW, I just found out that Waterstones in the UK - who promote and sell Waterstones-branded Kindles in their store - don't even sell Kindle books! They sell epub. Insane).

It's misleading to paint Amazon as generously allowing readers to use the space on a PW for whatever they want because for the average reader, that is simply not the case. The average Kindle user is restricted to Amazon. The average Nook or Kobo user has a much wider choice.

*On that topic, genuine question here: are there DRM-free sites that are practical alternatives to the main sites in terms of the number and range of available books? I ask because I just searched the Diesel e-book store and they didn't have any of the books I wanted (I checked about 10), but I don't know much about these sites so I wondered if there are alternatives - I'd much prefer to buy DRM-free books off the bat if possible rather than removing it later.
Well, yes, the "main sites" in other words Kobo, Amazon and B&N. Take a look at http://Baen.com, who sell a book and give you both epub and mobi. As they are not one of the three main sites, they have a strong incentive to sell DRM-free (and they are well-known as pioneers in that) because otherwise no one would buy there. They'd just buy on their Kindle/Nook/Kobo. Don't kid yourself -- most people will never read their books anywhere other than the device they bought it on. Anyone who messes around with ADE certainly is capable of messing around with calibre, and can probably handle Apprentice Alf as well, because to go anywhere further than "buy Nook/Kindle/Kobo, click shopping cart icon, search book, click buy button, read" means they are already that kind of person anyway!

You have just as much capability to sideload Kindle books as Kobo/Nook books, since to do either one you have to be more than usually capable to begin with!

And any book that you can get DRM-free on Amazon, Kobo, or B&N you can probably also get in a DRM-free store too, most likely the books you wanted were simply not available DRM-free. Anything published by Baen is available on their website OR Amazon, saying "At the publisher's request, this title is sold without DRM (Digital Rights Management)." and I'm sure the same goes for B&N/Kobo.

Tor books have the same message, and can be bought direct -- same deal, DRM-free epub+mobi formats, at their UK store, http://www.panmacmillan.com. (The US store was announced a couple of years ago but still shows a placeholder at http://www.tor.com/store/.)
Quote:

Who cares which came first? I imagine Amazon could add support for epub easily enough if they chose to. They don't, presumably because they'd prefer people to buy from Amazon, and unlike the other companies they're dominant enough that people will simply accept that restriction.
What would adding epub support do??? You can already read epub books on a Kindle, using calibre, kindlegen, or send-to-kindle! Adding support for ADE encryption would add something, but why on earth would they do that? It would cost more to license it than they would make on new customers. There is absolutely no intellectual justification for supporting TWO encryption schemes!
Quote:
As to mobi/azw3 not being 'Kindle books', I see that as nitpicking. Those formats are so tightly associated with Amazon (in a way that epub isn't closely associated with any single reader) that for all practical purposes - again, for the average reader - they really are 'Kindle books'.
And epub is a myth. B&N don't use them, nor do Kobo. B&N use a special format called epub+DRM, and Kobo is even worse, they use KEPUB which isn't even an epub at all. anyone who can get around these limitations can also figure out how to convert, or just use send-to-kindle. And any other source of books offers both formats to begin with.
Quote:
I don't 'hate on MOBI', I just disagree with the implication Amazon are more generous than B&N or other companies in their allocation of internal space. The fact is all these companies would rather you buy your books from them, and make it somewhat tricky to buy books from elsewhere. By sticking to their own format, Amazon are slightly worse than the others, but largely because they're successful enough that they can afford to do that. Maybe the other companies would do exactly the same thing if they didn't think it would lose them business.
So you're saying that Amazon AREN'T more generous than B&N in their allocation of personal space?

How is it tricky to buy from anywhere else? Buy a book from Baen or PanMacmillan, and you get books easily put on either device, it is simplicity itself! Same goes with downloading from http://www.gutenberg.org. The only people who don't give you mobi-formatted books are the people who try to limit you to their device. They don't make it tricky to buy books elsewhere, it is EXACTLY the other way around. They make it tricky to buy books there and USE it elsewhere!

Last edited by eschwartz; 01-11-2014 at 10:45 PM. Reason: typo
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Old 01-06-2014, 11:11 AM   #21
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But to be fair, Amazon's format is proprietary, so for the huge majority of users that entire 1.25GB on a Paperwhite is reserved exclusively for Amazon books. Whereas since the Nook supports epub, it's quite easy even for novice users to buy ebooks from other sources and to sideload them. I'd guess that this is why B&N are restricting the space: their 'walled garden' isn't quite as secure as Amazon's, given that they can't depend on the format itself to prevent people buying elsewhere. And sure, this isn't a factor for the majority of us here, who know how to convert between formats, but we're a very small section of ebook buyers. I do disagree with the limitation on principle, but I also don't think Amazon has some kind of moral high ground on this one: if anything, their restrictions are even worse.

While, as I said, I disagree with the limitation, I can't say that it'll really affect me in practice. I'm a big reader, but even then, having 200 books on my e-reader would be enough to last me for at least a year, I should think! I suspect that's true for most people. I'm more annoyed by the lack of page turn buttons and just the general sense that the Nook is losing all the things which distinguished it from other e-readers.
This is not true, people are able to side load books onto the Kindle. There are people on this very board who download books from this sites e-book "store" and other free sites, like Project Gutenburg, without any problems. There are people here who buy from Bean, Smashwords and other independent bookstores who load their books onto their Kindles without any problem.

It is true that you cannot download a Kobo or BN e-book onto a Kindle without removing DRM and converting the book but that does not mean that you can only read Amazon bought books on the Kindle or that Amazon has restricted the space for non-Amazon books.

You can sideload books to a Nook but you are limited in the number of those books you can add. That was less of an issue when you had an SD card because you could simply load the books onto the SD card. Without the SD card, BN has pretty much forced people with large collections to find a work around, buy only BN ebooks, or move to another e-reader without similar restrictions.

I would point out that it is hard to load a BN e-book onto another e-reader. It used to be, and I believe that it still is, that the Nooks ADE is different then Sony and Kobo's making it so that BN ebooks could not be read on a Kobo or Sony. Given that Kobo and Sony are mainly used outside the US and BN had not had a presence outside the US until recently, this really wasn't a big deal. That could change now that BN is starting to sell outside the US.
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Old 01-11-2014, 10:37 PM   #22
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I have to agree with ProfCrash--you can certainly sideload content to the Kindle. I bought a Kindle Paperwhite 2 a few months ago and have sideloaded almost all of my content on it--stuff I have on my Sony Reader. The Kindle doesn't differentiate storage between what's available for Amazon content vs what's available for side loaded content. Both co-exist in the same storage area. I did have to convert my books from ePub to AZW3 format, but Calibre makes this a trivial operation.

I would have seriously considered the new Nook Glowlight, but the limitation for side loaded content to only 500mb and the removal of the sd slot was definitely a deal killer for me.
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Old 01-12-2014, 01:34 AM   #23
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I buy Romance books and all mine are available in either mobi or ePub as DRM free books from various publishers such as Carina Press and Samhain. I then put them on a kobo Aura and a Kindle Paperwhite. The new Glow from B&N would have been a choice as I brought my Aura after it's release but the limitation in space for side loaded books was the problem, it wouldn't have been a problem if they had kept the SD slot, but without it the new Glo is no good for me.

I do have a Nook HD tablet so I was seriously looking at the new Glo but the configuration is just no good from me. I refuse to be tied to any one ebook seller and will always buy without DRM if I can so that rules out buying books from Amazon, Kobo or B&N, but in my genre everything ends up on AllRomance so I'm okay.
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Old 01-12-2014, 02:13 AM   #24
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I refuse to be tied to any one ebook seller and will always buy without DRM if I can so that rules out buying books from Amazon, Kobo or B&N, but in my genre everything ends up on AllRomance so I'm okay.
You do know that Amazon, Kobo and B&N also sell DRM free books right? It's up to the publisher/author as to if it's used or not.
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Old 01-12-2014, 05:12 AM   #25
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You do know that Amazon, Kobo and B&N also sell DRM free books right? It's up to the publisher/author as to if it's used or not.
I assumed Amazon always used DRM. I know Kobo don't always and tbh I don't look for books on B&N.
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Old 02-04-2014, 01:29 AM   #26
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I'm still stunned by B&N removing the SD card from the Nook. I love my Simple Touch with Glolight. I would have upgraded to the next generation and given B&N some $ if they had put the SD slot on the next model.

So instead I'm sticking to my old model. I found another one in the clearance section at my local Target and got myself a backup in case this one dies, as I haven't seen anything comparable yet -- front-lit, reads epubs, SD slot and not a Kobo which has the most horrific customer service I've ever had the misfortune to encounter in a company.
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Old 02-10-2014, 10:55 AM   #27
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I was looking at the specs on the new GL and found this in the fine print:

(About available on-board memory - btw the GL doesn't seem to take SD cards):

4GB: 2.5GB for content, of which 2GB is reserved for NOOK Store content. Actual formatted capacity may be less. 1GB=1 billion bytes.

ARE YOU KIDDING ME? Am I reading that correctly? Is the usable memory on the Nook GL 500MB max? Actually, LESS than 500 MB because they don't tell you how much you are losing to formatting ... Because none of my current e-books are "Nook store content" and I wouldn't be planning on adding much from that source.

Please tell me I'm misunderstanding something ... because that looks just ludicrous
I agree. That's a deal-breaker as far as I'm concerned. My entire epub collection is comprised of free and public domain literature which means that 2GB of the Nook's 2.5GB would be useless to me.
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Old 02-17-2014, 08:23 PM   #28
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People are still bitching about this? I averaged out the file size of my books and figured the ST could still hold over 400 of them. How many books do you need with you at once? Yes I side load all my books but to keep things simple I only keep books I have not read yet and a select few that I may read again. Why do you heed 2000 books with you while you are waiting for your significant other in a store parking lot. The average reader could still keep close to a couple years of books on the ST. Is this really a problem or do the posters here just need something to bitch about?
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Old 02-18-2014, 12:54 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Aqua-Andy View Post
People are still bitching about this? I averaged out the file size of my books and figured the ST could still hold over 400 of them. How many books do you need with you at once? Yes I side load all my books but to keep things simple I only keep books I have not read yet and a select few that I may read again. Why do you heed 2000 books with you while you are waiting for your significant other in a store parking lot. The average reader could still keep close to a couple years of books on the ST. Is this really a problem or do the posters here just need something to bitch about?
I think the complaints are more about the fact that sideloaded books are treated as 2nd class citizens, not so much about the amount of space dedicated to them. In other words, it's the fact that there are dedicated spaces for BN and other, not the amount of space per se.
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Old 02-18-2014, 08:25 AM   #30
booklover6
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Originally Posted by Aqua-Andy View Post
Why do you heed 2000 books with you while you are waiting for your significant other in a store parking lot. The average reader could still keep close to a couple years of books on the ST. Is this really a problem or do the posters here just need something to bitch about?
I call it obsessive need. Guilty! But a tablet works much better for people that want to keep thousands of books on their device. So I do that on my tablets. I keep far fewer on my e-ink devices. Even so, I want plenty of space on my e-ink readers. I am done buying devices with itty bitty memory partitions.
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