Register Guidelines E-Books Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   MobileRead Forums > E-Book Readers > Kobo Reader

Notices

View Poll Results: Should the KoboTouchExtended calibre plugin enable side-loaded KePub reading stats?
Yes - I want them at any cost 29 28.16%
Yes, and I promise to be careful when syncing with Kobo 29 28.16%
Yes - I have a different reason 1 0.97%
I don't care about KePub reading stats 11 10.68%
No - I buy/sync most of my books from Kobo 3 2.91%
No - I think it would be too confusing or cause too many problems 19 18.45%
No - I have a different reason 1 0.97%
I don't use the KoboTouchExtended plugin 10 9.71%
Voters: 103. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 11-12-2013, 02:49 PM   #1
jgoguen
Generally Awesome Person
jgoguen ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jgoguen ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jgoguen ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jgoguen ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jgoguen ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jgoguen ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jgoguen ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jgoguen ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jgoguen ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jgoguen ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jgoguen ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 636
Karma: 2018502
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: New Brunswick, Canada
Device: Kobo Glo
Sideloaded KePub stats

So I can re-enable statistics for side-loaded KePubs using the KoboTouchExtended calibre driver, but doing so creates an extremely unhealthy "us versus them" situation with Kobo.

As part of their normal sync operation, the Kobo wireless and Kobo Desktop sync operations will remove any book in the "official KePub" folder that it thinks would not be synced to the device. There's no way I've found to disable that behaviour, but it's also a perfectly reasonable thing to do. What happens to the side-loaded KePubs (that I send with the option to enable KePub stats) during the sync? The files are deleted from the Kobo device. If you have the setting to show all of your purchased books, they will remain in the library list but they become "download this book" entries which cause problems if you actually try to download them (because there's no Kobo book with that UUID), or if you only show books on the device they're removed from the Library view. Again, there's nothing nefarious in this - it's the completely legitimate outcome of a perfectly reasonable sync process.

To have in-book reading stats for side-loaded KePubs using the KoboTouchExtended driver, you therefore must (while you have side-loaded KePub files anyway) disable wireless on your device, never turn it back on, and never again use the Kobo Desktop software. Firmware updates either need to be side-loaded manually (although I bet I could write a calibre plugin to get them... but it's completely unsupportable by Kobo), done when you have no side-loaded KePub files on the device, or done anytime over wireless or Kobo Desktop and then you would have to delete and re-send all your side-loaded KePub files after the upgrade.

Why did Kobo disable side-loaded KePub stats in the first place? Because they felt the stats were not accurate. Enabling this driver feature will not improve stats accuracy.

As someone who never purchases books from Kobo anymore (I've found cheaper and/or better quality books elsewhere almost every time) this causes me personally no grief aside from how much time was wasted because Kobo would rather spend developer time breaking side-loaded files instead of fixing real bugs. But I know there are people who purchase books from Kobo, and this would cause extra effort in getting your purchases onto the device and may (because we don't fully understand the KePub structure) not be the same quality book you purchased. And the behaviour would be rather unexpected; just imagine you've sent books using calibre, then you purchase a book from Kobo on your device, and suddenly all those books you sent with calibre are suddenly gone!

If you use the Pocket integration available in Firmware 2.9 or later, the Pocket sync happens with the standard wireless sync. This means all the issues with losing your side-loaded KePub files apply when syncing Pocket. You can maybe avoid this by syncing Pocket manually from the Pocket screen.

When using side-loaded KePub stats, the overall book percentages don't seem to be stored properly, causing the overall book percentage to be shown as either 0% complete or 1% complete no matter where you are in the book.

And, to top it all off, because you would be using 100% unsupportable code (unsupportable by Kobo anyway), you would need to remember to not contact Kobo unless you can reproduce the issue with a book purchased from Kobo and synced to the Kobo device using official methods.

I'd like to hear from all of you people who use the KoboTouchExtended driver with your Kobo device(s) with your opinions on whether you think enabling side-loaded KePub stats are a good idea now that you know the issues. I'd also like to know if this makes you more likely to purchase Kobo books (and less likely to use this plugin) or more likely to purchase books from non-Kobo retailers and use this plugin for KePub features. Even if someone has already posted with your exact opinion; if only one person says it, I don't see all the others who agree. That said, please try to avoid a "me too" post; seeing an opinion sticks out more for me than seeing a quote and a "yea, what they said" post.

If anyone feels the need to contact Kobo about this, please remember to be polite and respectful, remember that this is third-party code that they have no obligation (and no ability) to support, and part of Kobo's job is to encourage people to buy more Kobo books.

Last edited by jgoguen; 11-13-2013 at 07:02 AM.
jgoguen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2013, 03:16 PM   #2
giorgio130
Time Waster
giorgio130 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.giorgio130 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.giorgio130 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.giorgio130 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.giorgio130 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.giorgio130 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.giorgio130 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.giorgio130 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.giorgio130 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.giorgio130 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.giorgio130 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 414
Karma: 288418
Join Date: May 2011
Device: Kobo Glo and Aura HD
You could create a poll in the first post, to avoid the "me too" posts. Having said that, I would activate the feature in no time. Thank you for the effort!
giorgio130 is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Enthusiast
Old 11-12-2013, 04:03 PM   #3
John F
Wizard
John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 2,192
Karma: 8421248
Join Date: Feb 2009
Device: Kobo Glo
If you don't break compatibility with 2.6.1b, then I say do it. I would probably use the feature, when I eventually update to the latest firmware. I don't want to upgrade the firmware if I'm going to lose stats. Maybe talk to someone at Kobo to see whether it is worth doing; maybe it is a bug and Kobo plans on fixing it. If Kobo has definite plans to fix it than I would say hold off.

I've lost track of what I'll gain/lose by going to the latest firmware, so I'm probably going to stick to 2.6.1b for a while.
John F is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2013, 04:13 PM   #4
PeterT
Taking a break; Fed up
PeterT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.PeterT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.PeterT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.PeterT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.PeterT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.PeterT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.PeterT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.PeterT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.PeterT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.PeterT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.PeterT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
PeterT's Avatar
 
Posts: 6,529
Karma: 43521910
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Toronto
Device: Wife: Touch, Arc, Vox Me: Nexus 7, Glo
Sorry to say but I feel enabling these stats is a bad idea. We've been told there are inaccuracies with them, and additionally adding them back in will ensure that anyone who accidentally syncs via WiFi or Desktop will see ALL there sideloaded kEpubs wiped along with their associated stats.

This also ensures that users will never get any official updates from Kobo.
PeterT is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2013, 04:29 PM   #5
tempest@de
Groupie
tempest@de 's ceiling is 100% spider-free.tempest@de 's ceiling is 100% spider-free.tempest@de 's ceiling is 100% spider-free.tempest@de 's ceiling is 100% spider-free.tempest@de 's ceiling is 100% spider-free.tempest@de 's ceiling is 100% spider-free.tempest@de 's ceiling is 100% spider-free.tempest@de 's ceiling is 100% spider-free.tempest@de 's ceiling is 100% spider-free.tempest@de 's ceiling is 100% spider-free.tempest@de 's ceiling is 100% spider-free.
 
Posts: 162
Karma: 118746
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Portugal
Device: Kobo Glo, Hanlin V3
I would like to have the ability to enable side-loaded KePub stats even with the issues that you described.

Has I don’t usually sync I don’t care that I couldn’t sync anymore to avoid the problems you just described.

And given that you just described what we should and shouldn’t do to have the stats and avoid problems if I want to sync I know what I have to do, and wouldn’t mind to have to send all the books after an update of firmware, since I don’t expect kobo to release new firmware’s every week, having to do so every once in a wile if I chose to do so its ok for me.


It wouldn’t make me any more or less likely to purchase Kobo books since even the ones that I buy from kobo are transferred to my pc and side loaded, I don’t like the official kepub format, I prefer my own.
tempest@de is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2013, 04:54 PM   #6
ottdmk
Addict
ottdmk ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ottdmk ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ottdmk ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ottdmk ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ottdmk ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ottdmk ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ottdmk ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ottdmk ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ottdmk ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ottdmk ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ottdmk ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 339
Karma: 2467598
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Device: Kobo Aura HD
I'm with PeterT. Leave it out. There will be a significant portion of the populace that will try this while ignoring the caveats, and that will cause a lot of grief.
ottdmk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2013, 05:01 PM   #7
jackastor
Wizard
jackastor ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jackastor ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jackastor ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jackastor ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jackastor ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jackastor ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jackastor ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jackastor ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jackastor ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jackastor ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jackastor ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
jackastor's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,536
Karma: 2604523
Join Date: Jun 2011
Device: iphone stanza, kobo touch,ASUS TF300,KOBO GLO, Kobo Aura HD, Kobo Mini
I am 100 percent for enabling the stats with a warning as you have stated.

Personally I think the opposition for this from kobo is due to the fact that they want their books to be special, and therefore push the sales of their books from the competitors. Such as Amazon, Kindle, Apple and Google etc.

I don't think that there is really any issues with stats from side loaded kobofied epubs. Again I think this is due to the need to drive sales of their bread and butter.( that said this is just M.O.)

regards

Jack
jackastor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2013, 05:06 PM   #8
jackastor
Wizard
jackastor ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jackastor ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jackastor ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jackastor ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jackastor ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jackastor ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jackastor ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jackastor ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jackastor ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jackastor ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jackastor ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
jackastor's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,536
Karma: 2604523
Join Date: Jun 2011
Device: iphone stanza, kobo touch,ASUS TF300,KOBO GLO, Kobo Aura HD, Kobo Mini
Effect to Pocket?

Just had a thought about what would this result in doing to pocket? Would enabling the stats cause pocket to no longer function or is pocket still viable....

regards

Jack
jackastor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2013, 06:21 PM   #9
Uschiekid
Evangelist
Uschiekid ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Uschiekid ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Uschiekid ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Uschiekid ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Uschiekid ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Uschiekid ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Uschiekid ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Uschiekid ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Uschiekid ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Uschiekid ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Uschiekid ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 453
Karma: 478836
Join Date: Oct 2012
Device: Kobo Glo
I don't use your plugin, but have at various times thought about using it (and have tried it out a couple times), so take that into account when reading my opinion.

I think that if you include the stats while these conditions exist, you should branch your plugin into 2. One as it is now. One with the stats. Provide the first one as it is now, through calibre, and provide the 2nd one as a beta (and not in calibre's list of plugins), much as davidfor did when he first was developping KoboUtilities. Then the people who don't go to any bother figuring out the implications are much less likely to get their hands on the more problematic plugin and cause a lot of headache with their complaints of things you have so logically laid out in the OP.

I think it's also important to note, that there are probably people who like the plugin as it is, even without the stats for other features that it can provide (layout, footnotes, etc). And there may be people who don't want the risks or problems associated. This would ensure both camps are happy and getting the most out of your plugin.

Now, I realise updating 2 plugins with potentially very different code could be a dealbreaker for my idea. I don't write code and don't in any way think you are obligated to do any more than you want and feel is a good use of your time. So feel free to dismiss this idea altogether. If the existing plugin could stay basically as is (don't know how much you have to change each kobo fw update), and you could branch out and put most of your time in the new plugin, that might be a workable solution as well.

Thanks for the heads-up about what this change would entail as I have been following the progress with a lot of interest.
Uschiekid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2013, 06:57 PM   #10
6charlong
friendly lurker
6charlong ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.6charlong ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.6charlong ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.6charlong ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.6charlong ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.6charlong ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.6charlong ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.6charlong ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.6charlong ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.6charlong ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.6charlong ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
6charlong's Avatar
 
Posts: 865
Karma: 2430036
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: US
Device: Kindle, nook, Apple and Kobo
First, I love your plugin. I have bought hundreds of ebooks over the past 13 years including some from Shortcovers and Kobo. I love what kePub does for ebooks and your plugin lets me read my old books in kePub form.

That said, please do not implement the statistics, or if you must, then make it an option and default to not sending them.

I buy almost all my books from Kobo now because I like what they provide and because I know it costs them money to keep doing it. I always wanted to be paid for my work and feel an obligation to pay others for what they do for me. Besides, their prices are usually competitive for the books I want.

I do appreciate your efforts jgoguen. Thank you. coming.
6charlong is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2013, 07:22 PM   #11
jgoguen
Generally Awesome Person
jgoguen ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jgoguen ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jgoguen ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jgoguen ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jgoguen ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jgoguen ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jgoguen ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jgoguen ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jgoguen ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jgoguen ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jgoguen ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 636
Karma: 2018502
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: New Brunswick, Canada
Device: Kobo Glo
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackastor View Post
Just had a thought about what would this result in doing to pocket? Would enabling the stats cause pocket to no longer function or is pocket still viable....

regards

Jack
As I understand it (I haven't done much investigation at all) Pocket would not be viable because it does its syncing during the standard sync process. So I guess I should add to the caveats, you don't get to sync Pocket articles without having the same side-loaded KePub issues.
jgoguen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2013, 07:37 PM   #12
PeterT
Taking a break; Fed up
PeterT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.PeterT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.PeterT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.PeterT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.PeterT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.PeterT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.PeterT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.PeterT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.PeterT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.PeterT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.PeterT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
PeterT's Avatar
 
Posts: 6,529
Karma: 43521910
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Toronto
Device: Wife: Touch, Arc, Vox Me: Nexus 7, Glo
Actually I *think* that you can just sync pocket; when you select Library / Pocket it does a sync of Pocket and only Pocket.
PeterT is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2013, 07:38 PM   #13
davidfor
Grand Sorcerer
davidfor ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.davidfor ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.davidfor ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.davidfor ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.davidfor ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.davidfor ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.davidfor ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.davidfor ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.davidfor ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.davidfor ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.davidfor ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 5,011
Karma: 4808704
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Australia
Device: Kobo Touch, Kobo Glo
You might get away with Pocket. You can sync the articles within the pocket screen. That doesn't seem to cause a sync of other books. A test would be to add a book preview through the Kobo shop and then sync within Pocket. If the preview doesn't get downloaded, then it is probably safe.
davidfor is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2013, 07:54 PM   #14
jgoguen
Generally Awesome Person
jgoguen ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jgoguen ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jgoguen ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jgoguen ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jgoguen ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jgoguen ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jgoguen ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jgoguen ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jgoguen ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jgoguen ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jgoguen ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 636
Karma: 2018502
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: New Brunswick, Canada
Device: Kobo Glo
Quote:
Originally Posted by giorgio130 View Post
You could create a poll in the first post, to avoid the "me too" posts. Having said that, I would activate the feature in no time. Thank you for the effort!
Poll created. And I've updated the first post with information that may change some people's opinions so please re-read the first post and ask for any clarification on anything you aren't certain about! If you're going to choose a 'yes' option I want you to be as informed as possible about the issues in using this feature.
jgoguen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2013, 12:31 AM   #15
anacreon
Groupie
anacreon composes epic poetry in binary.anacreon composes epic poetry in binary.anacreon composes epic poetry in binary.anacreon composes epic poetry in binary.anacreon composes epic poetry in binary.anacreon composes epic poetry in binary.anacreon composes epic poetry in binary.anacreon composes epic poetry in binary.anacreon composes epic poetry in binary.anacreon composes epic poetry in binary.anacreon composes epic poetry in binary.
 
anacreon's Avatar
 
Posts: 159
Karma: 90050
Join Date: May 2012
Device: sony prs-t2, kobo aura HD + aura
I love your plugin and feel I couldn't do without, but what you propose frightens me. I do occasionally buy from Kobo, and I use Pocket, and I can do without the detailed stats - the simple % that appears on top of the screen within the book, and in the lists, is enough for me.

I don't know whether it would make sense to make it an option, but I feel with others in this thread that not everybody would be cautious, so it should be an "opt in" and not "opt out" option.

Many thanks for your work.
anacreon is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Glo How to access Reading Menu Stats reading sideloaded epubs cinetici Kobo Reader 23 05-27-2013 07:43 AM
Touch Sideloaded EPUBs with KEPUB features jpelgrom Kobo Reader 22 08-01-2012 04:27 PM
Reading stats Mear Sony Reader 0 02-26-2012 07:53 PM
Stats for the writer somebaudy General Discussions 1 12-26-2011 08:23 AM
Touch Sideloaded epubs-fixed the annotation with kepub but font resizing is not working PF4Mobile Kobo Reader 0 08-20-2011 09:09 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:59 AM.


MobileRead.com is a privately owned, operated and funded community.