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Old 12-23-2013, 01:32 PM   #46
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If portable electronics actually posed a risk, they would be confiscated and placed inside checked baggage. To not do so, would be irresponsible.
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Old 12-23-2013, 02:03 PM   #47
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And there would be a check to make sure that they were turned off. There was the one time that I had my cell phone in my purse and forgot to turn it off. It was a complete accident and the battery was dead when we landed which was a pain in the wazoo.

Or the fact that a Kindle can be put in airplane mode but not turned completly off. Heck, I am not certain you can completly turn off an iPad. If you can, I don't know how to do so.

The point is that planes have been flying with eletronics in various states of on for a while, whether intentional or accidental. There was a time when that would have been bad for airplanes but we are most likely past that time. Which is why we have not seen planes falling from the sky in large quantities due to interference since people started flying with laptops and cell phones and iPod's. Nevermind e-readers, tablets, iTouches, Gameboys, and a whole host of small electronics. Most of which probably where in some state of on.
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Old 12-23-2013, 02:45 PM   #48
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Since we are restating things that have already been said:

It wouldn't surprise me if electronics haven't been an issue for the past decade or two. They run at considerably lower power and at considerably higher frequencies these days, which diminishes the potential for interference. But that isn't the point.

The point is that a bunch of people with absolutely no understanding of engineering and physics have decided to dismiss the rules. The point is that a bunch of people with absolutely no understanding of emergency procedures on airlines have decided to dismiss the rules. People demonstrate their ignorance in this all of the time. It ranges from passengers not paying attention to instructions in flight, to comments such as your own. (Airplanes don't simply "fall from the skies".)

Don't pretend you're smarter than the people who do something for a living. Chances are you aren't. Chances are that you're missing something important.
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Old 12-23-2013, 02:49 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by BWinmill View Post
The point is that a bunch of people with absolutely no understanding of engineering and physics have decided to dismiss the rules. The point is that a bunch of people with absolutely no understanding of emergency procedures on airlines have decided to dismiss the rules. People demonstrate their ignorance in this all of the time. It ranges from passengers not paying attention to instructions in flight, to comments such as your own. (Airplanes don't simply "fall from the skies".)
No; the point is that if they really posed a hazard they wouldn't be allowed.
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Old 12-23-2013, 03:00 PM   #50
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No; the point is that if they really posed a hazard they wouldn't be allowed.
Speak to someone knowledgeable in risk management.

It's one thing to 'question' authority. It's quite another to assume--and behave as though-- the authorities are wrong without sufficient information.
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Old 12-23-2013, 03:12 PM   #51
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Speak to someone knowledgeable in risk management.

It's one thing to 'question' authority. It's quite another to assume--and behave as though-- the authorities are wrong without sufficient information.
I always turned my Walkman off when told to do so; but thought it rather stupid for the reason I stated. But hey, rules are rules no matter how ridiculous.
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Old 12-23-2013, 03:15 PM   #52
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That's the whole point. It doesn't matter what we think of the rule; it is (in the US at least) a criminal offence not to obey the instructions of a member of the cabin staff. Their word is quite literally the law.
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Old 12-23-2013, 04:26 PM   #53
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My personal take on the matter is, since it is not actually possible to turn off a Kindle, it makes no difference whether I read it or not.

They are welcome to ban Kindles and I will totally obey the rules, but why punish me for a non-existent rule? i.e. the rule is kindles should be off, and I comply with that as much is physically possible, which is to say not at all, and the fact that I am reading on it should not be considered a violation of that rule.



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Old 12-23-2013, 04:39 PM   #54
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Last week on a BA flight I was asked to switch of my ereader. While the guy next to me was allowed to keep on playing with his smartwatch, Where's the rationale?
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Old 12-25-2013, 12:16 PM   #55
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That's good to know, paola! I was on a British Airways domestic UK flight mid-last week (i.e. after the 14th), and we still had to turn off electronics. The flight was so short though that I didn't even bother to get my electronics out and just entertained myself with their BusinessLife magazine.
it started on the 19th, I think, and I was so tuned to the olden days that I did not even notice - indeed, it was my husband who told me: he was on an earlier flight on the same day (on the 20th), and he said the flight attendant sounded very proud when making the announcement.
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Old 12-25-2013, 01:54 PM   #56
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I flew United across country, and they were very explicit that SMALL devices were allowed. I had big headphones on, and was watching a movie (actually 3) during takeoff and landing.
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Old 12-25-2013, 05:32 PM   #57
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My personal take on the matter is, since it is not actually possible to turn off a Kindle, it makes no difference whether I read it or not.
I suspect that the inability to turn off many modern devices, or to even remove their batteries as a means of forcing them to be turned off, was part of the rationale. Of course they could have banned all such devices from airlines (carry-on or checked), but the risk is so low that it would probably create more problems to enforce such a ban.

I also suspect that the regulations were just plane dated. While it is still possible to find examples of RF interference, it seems to be much less common these days. (Well, outside of bands that have many shared users.) I don't know whether it is due to the low power and high frequencies used by modern devices, as I suggested earlier, or if the electronics are much better designed and more stable.

But planes falling out of the sky was never really an issue. The reliability of aviation communications (and perhaps instrumentation) was an issue. Electronics don't have a direct impact upon aerodynamics after all, just the data available to pilots.
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Old 12-26-2013, 04:35 AM   #58
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But planes falling out of the sky was never really an issue. The reliability of aviation communications (and perhaps instrumentation) was an issue. Electronics don't have a direct impact upon aerodynamics after all, just the data available to pilots.
Not true. Most modern aircraft have so-called "fly by wire" control systems, in which the flight controls do not directly operate the ailerons, elevators, etc, but instead tell a computer to do so.

Of course it's vanishingly unlikely that a hand-held electronic device could affect such systems, but it's completely wrong to claim that "Electronics don't have a direct impact upon aerodynamics"; they assuredly do.
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Old 12-26-2013, 07:43 AM   #59
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FWIW, Kindles *can* be turned off.
(At least up to the KT generation of eink and the 2012 FIREs.)
You press and hold the power button for something like a minute and they totally shut down. When next you turn them on they do a full boot that takes a couple minutes.
The procedure works even (especially) when the system is locked/crashed.

Every small electronic device I've ever seen has a full-off/fresh boot process. Sometimes it's obscure, often it is a pain to engage, but I've yet to see one that doesn't have it.
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Old 12-26-2013, 11:22 AM   #60
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FWIW, Kindles *can* be turned off.
(At least up to the KT generation of eink and the 2012 FIREs.)
You press and hold the power button for something like a minute and they totally shut down. When next you turn them on they do a full boot that takes a couple minutes.
The procedure works even (especially) when the system is locked/crashed.

Every small electronic device I've ever seen has a full-off/fresh boot process. Sometimes it's obscure, often it is a pain to engage, but I've yet to see one that doesn't have it.
I carefully held down the power button on my Kindle Touch for 120 seconds just to be sure -- it shut down after the usual 20 seconds, then did a full boot as soon as I let go.

No different from the usual 20-second procedure, except that it seems you could theoretically keep it off for as long as you continue holding down the power button. But that's not happening.
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