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Old 11-11-2013, 11:54 AM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fearindex View Post
That is a fair point, and yes I have considered it a lot from many angles - literally.

Here are a couple of stories of mine where I've researched the issue from the Kindle 4B lighted cover perspective:

Differences between Kindle 4/5 official lighted cover versions
http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,164293.0.html

Fixing Kindle 4/5/Touch lighted cover - no more light shining in your eyes!
http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,131020.0.html

Anyway, I agree that the PW2 light is more even than the Kindle 4B lighted cover when considered literally. The 4B light hotspots quite a bit and definitely isn't completely even to the sides. If someone find that unevenness bothersome, I have no quarrel with that - the light certainly isn't fully even and doesn't probably even try to be. No single LED point could light such a page evenly.

But there are some distinct differences why that is different. The biggest one is the way the unevenness of 4B light seems more natural - after all, it is like the unevenness of any light shining on the surface of a book. It is not an unevenness inherent to the surface itself. At least to my perception, a light source falling down on a surface and then getting darker the further you go from it feels quite natural - the brain adjusts to it quickly.

Contrast this to PW2, in a dark reading scenario, only the screen itself is lit - the contrast to the surroundings and the frame of the device is jarring. What you are seeing, then, is only a lighted screen - and if a lighted screen looks uneven, it is different than unevenness from an external lighting would be. You are seeing unevenness in the surface of the device itself, not an unevenness caused by light spreading over it.

And not only that, the way PW1/PW2 is lighted, with the help of four LEDs and a lightguide means that the light won't fall down on the screen in any kind of natural-feeling pattern such as e.g. a single overhead light would. It is a constructed light path and unevenness there does look and feel quite different from how at least I perceive external lighting. PW1 especially was prone to generating a almost randomly splotchy look, something that the 4B lighted cover could never do.
My K4BNT book cover built in light covers the whole book, no shading. I believe the lights vary as do the covers (as mine had to be sanded to be able to turn pages without catching). My light is brighter than I believe Fearindex pictures show.

The darkness of the text is why I am using my K4BNT every dark night (no backlighting in room).

Also the built in cover with light is more in the center. I believe the older covers were more to the side. Clip on lights are a pain in the you know what to put on every night. So the cover with the light is what I will be using until the PW2 becomes a PW3 or darker text for me.

I also did Fearindex's little tabby on the light itelf so no glare to my eyes. I added masking tape to the light lens too, mine was way too bright. But still nothing is perfect, so I use this modifications to read by.

Glad you like your PW2 though Fearindex.

Last edited by new; 11-11-2013 at 11:56 AM.
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Old 11-11-2013, 04:56 PM   #62
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Fair analysis there, new, thanks for posting!

I have several of the $69 Kindle official lighted cover and indeed, as I've posted photos too, the LEDs are directed a little differently and are of different brightness - so some variance is there. None are, in my opinion, fully evenly lighting though... a single central light source probably can't be fully even in lighting a 6" screen, it will be brighter in the middle and a little darker on the sides. Such simple "unevenness" does feel more natural to eyes than the "artificial" unevenness in PW2, though.

I agree that PW2 text blackness, or reading in perfectly dark room, isn't on par with the non-touch Kindle with official lighted cover. $69 Kindle with its lighted cover is still the best combo for darkness, in my opinion, although not even that is quite perfect as has been discussed above.
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Old 11-12-2013, 04:45 PM   #63
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Quote:
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Fair analysis there, new, thanks for posting!

I have several of the $69 Kindle official lighted cover and indeed, as I've posted photos too, the LEDs are directed a little differently and are of different brightness - so some variance is there. None are, in my opinion, fully evenly lighting though... a single central light source probably can't be fully even in lighting a 6" screen, it will be brighter in the middle and a little darker on the sides. Such simple "unevenness" does feel more natural to eyes than the "artificial" unevenness in PW2, though.

I agree that PW2 text blackness, or reading in perfectly dark room, isn't on par with the non-touch Kindle with official lighted cover. $69 Kindle with its lighted cover is still the best combo for darkness, in my opinion, although not even that is quite perfect as has been discussed above.
I was using my KFHD7, PW1, and K4BNT in the pitch dark, and again the K4BNT wins again; for darker text, and the light is evenly distributed on mine, the whole screen. Paperwhite is still milky, the KFHD well it is a tablet and the pixels are not like the HDX is...... I was trying the immersion reading on my KFHD on Little Women and it reads the audible professional voice as it highlights the text. I would like that sometimes but the print is not like I would like.

Yes I have to touch a button to turn on, then flip the light open, but hey I can see what I am reading.

Last edited by new; 11-12-2013 at 04:49 PM.
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Old 11-12-2013, 10:28 PM   #64
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While we agree much, I still wonder if we mean the same thing by even lighting on the $69 Kindle cover, new? By uneven I simply mean the light brightness varies depending where on the page one measures it. The $69 Kindle cover light of course isn't splotchy like PW can be.

All $69 Kindle 4/4B covers I've seen hotspot near under the light and then go on to become a little dimmer towards the sides. By hotspotting I mean an area shows a brighter circular glow of the light where it biggest hits the surface. Even if the sides don't look dimmer to you, are you saying yours' doesn't hotspot either?

Now I understand you use a filter on your lamp, so obviously I mean an unmodded light.

Here is my photo of three different $69 Kindle lighted cases from the first posts of this thread, all showing the hotspot and lighting unevenness - brighter in top middle and less bright towards the sides and bottom (a more careful look finds the more subtle differences like LEDs pointing a little differently):



Bigger image: http://imageshack.us/a/img27/6820/pdme.jpg

Last edited by fearindex; 12-02-2013 at 04:05 AM.
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Old 11-12-2013, 11:16 PM   #65
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Quote:
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While we agree much, I still wonder if we mean the same thing by even lighting on the $69 Kindle cover, new? By uneven I simply mean the light brightness varies depending where on the page one measures it. The $69 Kindle cover light of course isn't splotchy like PW can be.

All $69 Kindle 4/4B covers I've seen hotspot near under the light and then go on to become a little dimmer towards the sides. By hotspotting I mean an area shows a brighter circular glow of the light where it biggest hits the surface. Even if the sides don't look dimmer to you, are you saying yours' doesn't hotspot either?

Now I understand you use a filter on your lamp, so obviously I mean an unmodded light.

Here is my photo of three different $69 Kindle lighted cases from the first posts of this thread, all showing the hotspot and lighting unevenness - brighter in top middle and less bright towards the sides and bottom (a more careful look finds the more subtle differences like LEDs pointing a little differently):
If I didn't have the lens filter (aka masking tape) and the flag taped to the light arm, perhaps I would have uneven lighting. But no I do not have hot spots or dark areas. Perhaps my holding the left side of the cover upright (not flat) makes the lighting more concentrated. I do this because I don't want light flooding the room for my light sensitive sleeping bird I also put the fabric tape over the area under the light where it says "kindle" to stop any reflection.

I am telling you my light is soooo bright. My K4B might look like your pics, but I am not going to test without all of my covers and flag that work for what I want it to do. I knew I needed to lower the light intensity big time.

We really should work for Amazon Kindle design because I would tell them what we want and design it our way!

Does this picture have your flags on the arm? If not that explains why they look that way. My flag redirects the light. It just works for me, it ain't perfect, but I can see the text to read. I have light still flooding over the right side of the book on my bed. If I didn't aim the left side of the cover the light would be flooding to the left. Hope this makes sense.

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Old 11-13-2013, 12:22 PM   #66
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Thanks for the clarifications, new!

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Does this picture have your flags on the arm? If not that explains why they look that way. My flag redirects the light. It just works for me, it ain't perfect, but I can see the text to read. I have light still flooding over the right side of the book on my bed. If I didn't aim the left side of the cover the light would be flooding to the left. Hope this makes sense.
No, the picture has all the covers/lights as they came from the factory. I use the cardboard piece to avoid the LED shining directly to my eyes, but in this photo I had removed it to photograph the covers as they came from factory.
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Old 11-15-2013, 09:42 PM   #67
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I also did Fearindex's little tabby on the light itelf so no glare to my eyes. I added masking tape to the light lens too, mine was way too bright. But still nothing is perfect, so I use this modifications to read by.
Good idea. I'd rep you for that, but I don't want to ruin your perfectly rounded karma. So many nice zeros...

Good thread fearindex. I've gotten some ideas. I hate booklights. I always have. I've actually read on LCDs for more than a decade because I hate booklights so much, and I read every night. I've found ways to make it strain free, but I am liking my kindle.

I dug an old booklight out last night to try it on my new K4B. I know I don't want that hassle, and I'm pretty sure I won't like the case, and I know I don't want to lose my wonderful page turning buttons, so I'm daydreaming a little about a 3D printed (or maybe even sugru/oogoo) housing that could slide on to the top of my kindle. I could choose the led intensity, angle the bulbs just so, angle a housing overhang to prevent light hitting my eyes directly and then shade it with a paper of my choice. I bet I could get a pretty even, glare free experience. Might even be able to do adjustable brightness.

It's not something I'm likely to do soon, if ever, but I can dream.
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Old 11-16-2013, 05:07 AM   #68
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Thanks, David. And yes, 3D printing sounds like a potential solution in the future. I haven't dreamed of a complete case, but when I was first researching how to fix the glare issue in the $69 Kindle official lighted cover, I was dreaming of molding some kind of "hood" for the light that I could put on when reading. Then again, for that particular scenario the cardboard or felt tape ended up being a better solution because it can remain in place even when not in use.

But 3D printing and other hand-made techniques should certainly come welcome for us who are not perfectly satisfied with official or third-party solutions. I know I've certainly looked at plenty of first and third-party products in my search for the perfect Kindle experience - if I would have had the skill and equipment to make my own, that would have solved it a long time ago.
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Old 11-17-2013, 02:28 PM   #69
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Somewhat related to managing my growing Kindle device library, I recently ran into the six device limit on a Kindle book. While I've had many Kindles for years, I rarely read/load the same books on them, so this was a first. That time removing the book from another Kindle and even re-syncing from menu and trying a couple of times didn't help, I actually had to - for whatever reason - de-register one device to get the book freed for a new installation, which worked.

Anyway, today I decided to test how I'd fare with book removal/license freeing on the second go. I loaded The Hobbit onto six Kindles that I registered to the same account: PW1, PW2, $69 Kindle "4B", DXB, Kindle 3 Keyboard and $79 Kindle "4S". This went fine. All were loaded through the device Archive/Cloud items, while connected via 3G or Wi-Fi. Then I tried to load it onto Kindle 2 via 3G - the seventh Kindle - and got this screen:



Bigger image: http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/3307/8r3o.jpg

Then I went back to the $79 Kindle "4S", removed the book, re-synced from menu and re-tried on the Kindle 2. It worked! Now trying to load it back onto the $79 Kindle "4S" got the same error as above. I removed the book from the Kindle 2, re-synced, re-downloaded on the $79 Kindle "4S" and again it worked. Then I removed the book from the $79 Kindle "4S" but did not re-sync, now Kindle 2 refused to load the book with the same message as above. Re-synced $79 Kindle "4S" and then the book loaded to the Kindle 2 again.

So, this time removing and re-syncing worked in freeing the book license. Removing without re-syncing from menu didn't work. That said, last time, with a different book and slightly different set of Kindles, removing and re-syncing did not free the license - and I tried a couple of times back then too, no help. I don't know what was the problem then, was it the different book, the different time, the different Kindle setup or what, but that was the experience then.

Last edited by fearindex; 12-02-2013 at 05:02 AM.
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Old 11-21-2013, 03:14 AM   #70
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Paperwhite 2 status update:

So, the first Paperwhite 2 is going back, has been wrapped for UPS and will return to base. The second Paperwhite 2 is a keeper, as I said, and nothing has happened to change this - so I'm sticking to it.

In fact, I am happy to report I have completed two books on the PW2, which is two more than I ever completed on my PW1. I have actually not read on my $69 Kindle 4B that much since getting the replacement PW2, although no denying the basic Kindle has better blacks, and a better screen/light for reading in "absolute" darkness. There is still newness to the PW2 that makes it intriguing to try out.

Most of my reading on the PW2 has been in the dark, though, but some with some ambient lighting - the light is quite nice and useful in the latter scenario. In the dark I use 6-8, in some ambient lighting maybe 10(ish) light levels. As said, the screen isn't completely evenly lit, and this shows best in the middle light levels when there is little ambient lighting to even it out, go very low or very high and any unevenness hidden better. I think 10-15 is probably the "worst" range. But also as said, my PW2 is good enough to have crossed a very important mental threshold and I do get lost into reading on it. I wouldn't have completed two books on it, if this weren't the case.

I still think reading in darkness is a little problematic. Not because of screen quality issues, I don't see any significant unevenness in levels 6-8, and text blackness is OK... but the screen is pretty dark at that stage and going much up gets jarring and weary on the eyes, when there is very little or no ambient lighting. The contrast between the lit screen and the dark surroundings is very sharp (unlike on a case-lit basic Kindle) and the e-ink feeling is replaced by a more screen-like experience. No doubt, PW2 with its extra layers does look more screenish and less like paper, compared to the basic Kindle. Then again, I seem to nowadays spend maybe 30 seconds of pondering that and next time notice two hours later that I should have gone asleep an hour ago. Perhaps it just really is good enough for me.

One thing I do love almost unequivocally is the PW2 software. It really is nice to use pop-up footnotes and finger-pointing for footnotes and dictionary - that is a major, major upside in my use. Also, writing text is much easier on the touchscreen than on the $69 Kindle 4B of course. Finally, the cover view is just so nice and really makes the books I'm reading that bit more concrete. Were Amazon to make a non-lit version of this device, with a lighted cover integration, and I'd be all over that in three microseconds. I know PW2 has many other kinds of great features too, but I don't really use or need any others. One thing I miss from the $69 Kindle 4B is the reading progress bar. I wish they'd give that back.

Anyway, I now have two Kindles I keep charged and will alternate between them as I see fit, PW2 and the $69 Kindle 4B in the official lighted cover. I am glad to see I can enjoy both now.

Finally, updated PW2 to 5.4.2 yesterday and have Goodreads even on my international Amazon.com account, which is nice although I don't expect to use it anytime soon. Let's close with just a note on how the Cloud Collections work - not an issue for me since I don't use collections, but I did explore how they behave.

Quote:
By the way, I explored today how the Cloud Collections actually work.

Turns out, only "Kindle Paperwhite (2nd Generation), Kindle Fire HD (2nd Generation), Kindle Fire HDX, and Kindle for iPad, iPhone, and iPod touch" actually update Cloud Collections in real-time as of now. Make cloud changes on these devices/apps, and they will show in other listed devices/apps.

For any other Kindle or Kindle app, including Kindle for PC which I tested quite a bit today (the latest version), category import is a one-time, one-way deal. One-time meaning the time you update to 5.4.2 or the time you register a device or reading up for the first time. So, the first time you update or register a 5.4.2 PW2, it will import collections from Kindle for PC and other types of older devices, but after that if you change something in those older devices or the current Kindle for PC version, those changes will NOT come to PW2.

Of course it is possible Amazon will update other apps and devices to support "real-time" Cloud Collections later.

Here is Amazon's help text on it:

"To import a collection: With Cloud Collections, collections are automatically stored in the Cloud and can be synced between Kindle Paperwhite (2nd Generation), Kindle Fire HD (2nd Generation), Kindle Fire HDX, and Kindle for iPad, iPhone, and iPod touch reading apps.

Note: Importing collections from other devices or reading apps to Kindle Paperwhite (2nd Generation), Kindle Fire HD (2nd Generation), Kindle Fire HDX, and Kindle for iPad, iPhone, and iPod touch is currently limited to the first time you register the device or reading app."
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Old 11-24-2013, 04:17 AM   #71
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Paperwhite 2's magic fading a little?

Reading l_macd's comments on PW2 reading in low-light got me writing some of the thoughts last night's reading session invoked me with the PW2. As my relationship with my PW2 "normalizes", as the newness rubs off but also as I get accustomed to it, I think I'm beginning to really feel the one big thing I always - even before seeing a Paperwhite 1 - thought is the problem with this technology.

First of all, I don't find my PW2 screen defective or with major issues. Its lighting is even-enough, the screen isn't crooked and doesn't have pin-hole, the text blackness while not at $69 Kindle levels is still more than passable. I like the resolution and graphics it shows, the beautiful UI etc. PW2 screen, for me, has crossed a mental threshold and I think my replacement unit represents what one could call a "good PW2". It is a keeper. I can read on it without noticing flaws in the screen, they got the technology to that point - and for that I applaud Amazon. Fix the QA and get this into every buyers hands and lots less would complain.

But, and there is this one constant "but", that I feared would be there from the moment I pre-ordered the Paperwhite 1 before its release last year - and last night began to feel affecting the enjoyment again. I don't feel like I'm reading a book, I feel like I'm reading a screen. I think the fact that I've been reading non-fiction on my PW2 so far has shielded me from this, but trying to settle into fiction I found myself having difficulty of suspending disbelief, living the author's world.

The one thing that has been great since my first Kindle, the Kindle 2, is reading it at night, like a book. With the Kindle 2 I used an external reading lamp, but since Kindle 3 the integrated lighted covers have removed the necessity of a reading lamp. And with this setup, e-ink does its magic beautifully for me, I feel like tucked in with a good book, the darkness and the written world taking me away to places. That has, for me, been the magic of e-ink - it replicates a printed book, the integrated lighted covers and e-books just making it all more convenient than real books.

And I'm just not sure PW2 does that sufficiently in my reading scenario. Were I to use external lighting, obviously I could turn the PW2 light down and be content, but even that isn't quite as simple. On PW2 the text isn't, thanks to those light and touch layers, quite there on the top of the screen like printed text or regular e-ink is normally. Also, were I to use such external (e.g. clip-on) lighting as I do with regular e-ink Kindles, the slightly more textured layers on top of PW2 screen would show more than the even e-ink of regular Kindles, further decreasing the look and feel of a faux printed page because with a light so close those things matter. And of course, since PW2 doesn't support reading lights, a clip-on light would need to be battery powered - further inconvenience.

PW2 is probably at its best when reading in sufficient ambient lighting, with its own light set just so that it isn't visible, but helping offset insufficient ambient lighting. I can see how PW2 does help in these scenarios. But in darkness, I feel like needing to push the lighting way down (to 6-8 range) to decrease the feel of looking at an LCD screen, and then it becomes awfully dark - and still, with the slightly bluish (it is bluish in that scenario even though my PW2 looks quite yellow compared to PW1) rectangle staring you in the face in the darkness, I just can't quite espace the feeling that I'm looking at a screen, even squiting at a screen because making out the text gets a bit harder at those light-levels...

Last night, for the first time since I got the replacement, good PW2, I not only thought of returning to my $69 Kindle "4B" again (I've done that often as I've compared these moders), I actually set out to do so after a stint on the PW2 - but then felt so tired that decided to go to sleep instead. Didn't happen last night, but for the first time it almost did.

The saddest part is, with PW2 and the $69 Kindle "4B", I feel like I'm going to have to compromise one way or the other. I like the touch page change on PW2 (although it could do with a little more configurability), the tapping dictionary and footnote pop-ups, the cover view and the generally far more pleasant UI that adds a nice little touch to the experience - those are important things and I'd love to love the PW2 because of them. On the basic Kindle I like the reading progress bar, but most importantly the darker text and more paper-like/reading-lamp like reading experience - where it just gets easier to dive into the world of the book.

Either way, seems like I'm going to have to compromise.
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Old 11-24-2013, 05:03 PM   #72
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It's almost funny just how varied preferences can be, even amongst fairly discrete subgroups. Put a PW2 light layer on the K4B and I'd be pretty happy (though truth be told, I'd still prefer a 4ish" screen with tilting, sliding physical keyboard w/ arrow keys). An NSTGL deal just popped up at $50 (I've spent just under $60 total on my K4B), and if the version of android it had on it 1) wasn't arbitrarily modded/broken by B&N and 2) wasn't crazy obsolete, I'd be all over that. While I'm happy to use touch for menus and other navigation, but I want buttons to turn the page with. I hate page turning on touch screens.

For now, I got a like new Amazon lighted cover for my 4B from Amazon's warehouse deals. Upper left is nice, lower right is comparatively dark. Generally, it's too bright. I noticed they bothered to try and recess the bulb in the lighting arm to reduce shining it on your eyes, but they could have done a lot better there, IMO, I have to hold it at a slightly uncomfortable angle to avoid to issue. Modding this is easier than modding a whole new light, so that's where I'll start.
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Old 11-24-2013, 11:28 PM   #73
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I have to agree with about the last 6 paragraphs of what fearindex wrote above. I also quite like the touch screens ability to highlight a passage quickly if I'm reading the kind of book that warrants a lot of that. If the extras were what mattered, the pw2 would be great.

The fonts on PW2 are just low contrast enough that when used with the light (any setting for me) and the slightly blue/silver background cause my eyes to not lock on the words. Hard to pin down, it's just slightly harsh and for sure affects reading comprehension. For whatever reason button to turn pages like I've had on previous model Kindles keep me more engaged as well. I've thought about trying a light on the pw2, probably better off just sending it back and getting a 4b. I highlight a lot and have gotten so used to touch quickness so not sure if I want to make that trade off.
With my old Kindles and even the Touch I had stolen, there was something of the feeling I had when I was young curled up with a book. PW2 just feels to me like one more screen in my day.

No blueish tint like you can do with F.lux is so much easier my eyes and for this and the contrast of PW2 font I find myself reading with the great Marvin app on ipad more and more.
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Old 11-25-2013, 05:32 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by bounce View Post
With my old Kindles and even the Touch I had stolen, there was something of the feeling I had when I was young curled up with a book. PW2 just feels to me like one more screen in my day.
Exactly! So, so very well put. Exactly my experience.

As for the Kindle 4B lighted cover, I agree the bottom right corner can be a bit dark. Also as David Marseilles also experienced, the light can shine in your eyes.

One way, I have posted about this upwards in the thread, the rectify the 4B lighted cover is to tape a piece of cardboard over the light arm to block it from shining to your eyes. Make the bottom of this cardboard glossy, you can even use that trick to shine more light towards the bottom right corner which otherwise can be a bit darker.

Some have (pseudonum new I think?) a filter on the light itself, on the light arm, to make it less bright if that is their preference.



Bigger image: http://imageshack.us/a/img23/6103/ki...dcoverfix3.jpg

Last edited by fearindex; 12-02-2013 at 05:12 AM.
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Old 11-25-2013, 05:46 AM   #75
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Just to add one more comment to the $69 Kindle 4B lighted cover discussion, in my experience (as I have posted, including images upwards in this thread) the official lighted covers have some unit-to-unit variance in how bright the LEDs are and how evenly they are pointed at the screen. Some leave the bottom right corner darker than others.
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