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View Poll Results: Do you prefer iOS 7 over the "classic" iOS look?
Yes, iOS 7 looks better 27 19.57%
No, I preferred the previous iOS look & feel 69 50.00%
I'm fine with both; it's natural/acceptable evolution 42 30.43%
Voters: 138. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-10-2013, 01:04 PM   #196
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I don't think anyone was doubting whether a mobile OS could be productive for some. Rather, just that for many with more complex needs, any traditional tablet -- whether it be iOS or Android -- falls woefully short of a desktop OS like Windows 8 when it comes to many critical day-to-day tasks.

@mgmueller: The battery in my iPod Touch 3G lasted about 3.5 years. It still charges and gives me a couple of hours of use, but I am going to have the battery replaced soon, not by Apple but by someone locally. It will cost less than $50 to get a new battery. The battery in my Asus netbook lasted about 3 years and I bought a replacement battery for very cheap on eBay which works better than the original. Both these devices were used daily by me. My experience with lithium ion batteries in other devices has been similar -- about 3-4 (max) years of good usable life.

I think your experience with lithium-ion powered devices may be different from most because you are a real serial "gadgetist" and constantly use new devices. So you never run into end-of-battery-life issues. This is not said as a point of criticism but merely as observation. I have read some of your posts in the "Which one should I buy" forum with a sense of wonderment and a little bit of envy as I have neither the time nor resources to go through devices at the rate you do (but it sure sounds like fun!). For many, green issues are also a consideration when treating electronics as disposables, even if there is some recycling going on. My point is that the Surface Pro is quite pricey for such a disposable device. Microsoft should have made provisions to replace the battery.

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Old 11-10-2013, 01:30 PM   #197
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for many with more complex needs, any traditional tablet -- whether it be iOS or Android -- falls woefully short of a desktop OS like Windows 8 when it comes to many critical day-to-day tasks.
At the same time, for many with more complex needs, a traditional tablet -- whether it be iOS or Android -- performs certain crucial productivity-related tasks far better than a desktop OS like Windows 8 could ever do it. And that's what really matters.

Tablets are not meant to compete with traditional computers, nor are they supposed to replace them; they are ideally suited to complement them in performing certain tasks better than a traditional computer could ever do it. Reading e-books is the best example, but there are many others.
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Old 11-10-2013, 01:47 PM   #198
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At the same time, for many with more complex needs, a traditional tablet -- whether it be iOS or Android -- performs certain crucial productivity-related tasks far better than a desktop OS like Windows 8 could ever do it. And that's what really matters.

Tablets are not meant to compete with traditional computers, nor are they supposed to replace them; they are ideally suited to complement them in performing certain tasks better than a traditional computer could ever do it. Reading e-books is the best example, but there are many others.
Oh, I completely agree 100% that tablets are far more suited to reading ebooks than PCs. My Nook HD is the best e-Reader I've ever used because of its screen and size. Anything heavier I find unsuited to reading for long periods of time. It is better than even my Sony PRS-350. But I do not consider reading long-form books (for me) a real "productivity" task.

IMO, watching movies and playing many games are also superior on a tablet. But I don't consider them real "productivity" tasks either.

For me at least, productivity=a real OS ... and fun & entertainment = mobile OS. Yes, perhaps a little bit of hyperbole, but it is close to the truth. I agree with mgmueller in this respect. Most of what can be done better on a tablet is at least doable on a desktop ... but there are many things that a PC can do that a tablet can't even begin to replicate -- like Photoshop in layers.

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Old 11-10-2013, 02:38 PM   #199
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But I do not consider reading long-form books (for me) a real "productivity" task.
That applies to you, but other people's professions may well consist in reading (and annotating) lots of texts/books, for many hours per day. Similar applies to other activities one may better perform on a tablet than on a traditional computer.

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For me at least, productivity=a real OS ... and fun & entertainment = mobile OS.
Not for me, I assure you. I respect when someone claims that for themselves. But I find it to be crude prejudice when it is proclaimed as if it was universal truth, applying to all tablet users.

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there are many things that a PC can do that a tablet can't even begin to replicate
That is irrelevant, in my opinion. A car can't fly like an airplane, but that doesn't mean that the car is useless. You could also use an airplane like a car, propelling yourself along the road, without ever taking off. But would you really want to do that?

A car is a car, and an airplane is an airplane. They don't compete with each other; they complement each other. Each of them has their proper context for which it is ideally suited. I find it a bit silly, trying to argue if the car or the airplane is "better". Neither of the two is "better", because they don't compete with each other.

(Now, Microsoft are trying to sell devices that purport to be a car and an airplane at the same time. I'm not interested in their offering, because "Microsoft" in my mind is associated with "buggy product". To minimise the amount of headache in my life, I need to avoid Microsoft products as much as possible. If any of you guys are happy with those hybrid MS products, that's wonderful! I'm just not interested in them. I'm perfectly happy with my car as a car, and my airplane as an airplane. I don't wish to replace them with a single vehicle. If you wish to do that and trust Microsoft enough to deliver you a good user experience, by all means go ahead and enjoy your ride.)

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Old 11-10-2013, 03:04 PM   #200
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That applies to you, but other people's professions may well consist in reading (and annotating) lots of texts/books, for many hours per day. Similar applies to other activities one may better perform on a tablet than on a traditional computer.
Agreed! I was actually going to add that in but for the sake of brevity left it out. For example, I know that Harry proofreads (I assume for work purposes), and so for him, a tablet would definitely be a great productivity tool for that purpose. But those that read long-form books for work are a small minority of people.

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Not for me, I assure you. I respect when someone claims that for themselves. But I find it to be crude prejudice when it is proclaimed as if it was universal truth, applying to all tablet users.
Where did I proclaim anything to be universal truth? I thought I was clear in qualifying my opinion to "many" people or to myself.

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That is irrelevant, in my opinion. A car can't fly like an airplane, but that doesn't mean that the car is useless. You could also use an airplane like a car, propelling yourself along the road, without ever taking off. But would you really want to do that?
But who said a tablet is "useless?" I'm afraid your analogy is not apropos.

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I find it a bit silly, trying to argue if the car or the airplane is "better". Neither of the two is "better", because they don't compete with each other.
Again, your analogy is not relevant to my argument. But since you brought it up, an airplane is definitely better than a car for time-sensitive travel over long distances. They do compete with other in that sense.

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(Now, Microsoft are trying to sell devices that purport to be a car and an airplane at the same time. I'm not interested in their offering, because "Microsoft" in my mind is associated with "buggy product". To avoid the amount of headache in my life, I need to avoid Microsoft products as much as possible. If any of you guys are happy with those hybrid MS products, that's wonderful! I'm just not interested in them.
If you're referring to the hardware, it's not just about MS. Other vendors are producing hybrids as well.

Quote:
I'm perfectly happy with my car as a car, and my airplane as an airplane. I don't wish to replace them with a single vehicle. If you wish to do that and trust Microsoft enough to deliver you a good user experience, by all means go ahead and enjoy your ride.)
I don't think anyone is trying to persuade you in particular to get a hybrid. I think some (at least me) disagree with your view that a hybrid is not a great choice or superior choice for real productivity tasks in general. I also just wanted to get my view in that for me personally, a traditional tablet definitely can't compare to a real OS in terms of productivity. Just giving an alternate opinion.

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Old 11-10-2013, 03:21 PM   #201
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Just giving an alternate opinion.
Absolutely. Too off-topic for me to rebut the above post any further. I think both positions (tablet is/is not a productivity device) have been sufficiently argued for and against by now.
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Old 11-10-2013, 03:44 PM   #202
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Absolutely. Too off-topic for me to rebut the above post any further. I think both positions (tablet is/is not a productivity device) have been sufficiently argued for and against by now.
Yes, sometimes agreeing to disagree is the best option. But just to reiterate, I wasn't trying to get you to buy a hybrid or change your personal opinion on the matter.

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Old 11-10-2013, 08:15 PM   #203
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Yes, sometimes agreeing to disagree is the best option. But just to reiterate, I wasn't trying to get you to buy a hybrid or change your personal opinion on the matter.

--Pat
I thought the hybrid part was referring to the whole two OS's in one thing, not an actual hybrid tablet/laptop.
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Old 11-11-2013, 03:23 AM   #204
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Old 11-11-2013, 10:31 AM   #205
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I thought the hybrid part was referring to the whole two OS's in one thing, not an actual hybrid tablet/laptop.
My mention of "hybrids" was always referring to the hardware -- not the software. Does a software hybrid even exist? I think a tablet with a proper dock that could run both a desktop OS like Windows 8 plus Android (natively; not through some other software) would be very interesting. Sort of like a dual-boot situation, except you wouldn't have to go through an additional long boot-up process.

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Old 11-11-2013, 12:24 PM   #206
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Does a software hybrid even exist?
Windows 8... foolishly mixing 2 radically different user interfaces in one OS.
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Old 11-11-2013, 02:16 PM   #207
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My mention of "hybrids" was always referring to the hardware -- not the software. Does a software hybrid even exist? I think a tablet with a proper dock that could run both a desktop OS like Windows 8 plus Android (natively; not through some other software) would be very interesting. Sort of like a dual-boot situation, except you wouldn't have to go through an additional long boot-up process.

--Pat
A tablet like this (multi-boot Windows 8 + Android) has been announced and already presented from Samsung.
Like most Samsung tablets, it does have an optional docking station.
Personally, I'm not into Samsung re. build quality. Else it seems very interesting.
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Old 11-11-2013, 04:45 PM   #208
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My mention of "hybrids" was always referring to the hardware -- not the software. Does a software hybrid even exist? I think a tablet with a proper dock that could run both a desktop OS like Windows 8 plus Android (natively; not through some other software) would be very interesting. Sort of like a dual-boot situation, except you wouldn't have to go through an additional long boot-up process.

--Pat
I was pretty sure Faterson was referring primarily at least to the Win8 OS, which is essentially a mixture of Win7 and WinMetro.

And I doubt they could get Android to work together with Windows, although multiboot is an option -- however, running one in a virtual environment inside the other might do the trick.

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Old 11-11-2013, 05:00 PM   #209
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Yes, I was. But not just that; I'm not fascinated by hardware hybrids, either. For a productivity device in a stricter sense of the word, a 10-inch screen is hardly sufficient. My MacBook Air is 11.6 inches, and it's great, but for any work requiring multiple windows or heavy multi-tasking, I need to launch my desktop machine with the 30-inch central monitor.

Bottom line: a tablet screen seems too small for a productivity device in a stricter sense of the word, while a larger screen of such a productivity device would likely be too unwieldy to handle as a tablet. That's why I don't quite believe in hardware hybrids, either.

There are rumours about a possible future iPad Pro with a 12-inch or 13-inch screen, which could be Apple's first hybrid device, but I'm rather skeptical in that regard.
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Old 01-10-2014, 08:06 PM   #210
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I purchased my iPad2 the first day it was available. If IOS7 existed at that time, I would not have been waiting in that line. I never even would have considered buying an Apple device, and I will NOT be replacing my iPad2 with another iPad. In other words, I very much dislike the entire look of IOS7.

They spent all that time and money updating the operating system and they couldn't even be bothered to add Up Down Left Right arrows to make editing text easier, let alone a forward Delete key. They gave me parallax when what I wanted was mouse capability.

Some of the Windows and Android tablets are looking better and better.

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