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Old 09-24-2013, 07:22 PM   #106
Katsunami
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Originally Posted by Hitch View Post
Katsunami:

Well, we all have ePUBpack, but that doesn't do the Sigil-style heavy lifting for you--the NCX and the OPF, which is the rather cool part. And with Sigil's newer features (the reports, the index linking, the clips), it's hard to say that simply packing an ePUB is the solution. It's of course invaluable; I use ePUBpack and ePUBTweak both, as needed. But neither does all the tedious internal stuff that is so incredibly time-saving with Sigil. To me, if you had to lose EVERYTHING in Sigil except 1-2 core components, keeping the NCX and OPF creation alone is what I consider core functionality.
Yes, that is what the compiler-part of the EPUB packer would do. It would build the OPF and NXC as it goes, maybe only using a simple layout file to do it.

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The rest is great, but I think that most of the people who use Sigil do what we do-edit in another HTML editor, like NoteTabPro (although I personally have some weirdo problem with NTP 7.0), and then use Sigil for polishing the ePUB, make the NCX, make the OPF, add the meta, and bob's-yer-uncle, as they say here.
Yes, if one needs to create a book from scratch, having Sigil make the OPF and NCX (and the TOC editor) are the core functionalities. I couldn't begin to do that by hand.
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Old 09-25-2013, 01:47 AM   #107
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Originally Posted by Hitch View Post
The rest is great, but I think that most of the people who use Sigil do what we do-edit in another HTML editor, like NoteTabPro (although I personally have some weirdo problem with NTP 7.0), and then use Sigil for polishing the ePUB, make the NCX, make the OPF, add the meta, and bob's-yer-uncle, as they say here.

Hitch
That's why I was wondering if an extension to an existing HTML text editor might just as well serve your needs.

For example, I was looking at PSPad (free but Windows only unfortunately), and it has extensive customisation options using any WSH languages including Javascript, Python etc.. The actual structure of the editor itself is similar to Sigil with a project style explorer for content and the editor pane. It has it's own internal browser view (not sure if that feature is key for you). It already has advanced text search/replace etc...

So it seems that the key aspect would be putting those ePUB bells and whistles into an extension script, one that could open an ePUB and create the appropriate project directory and then package it all back up again, along with a couple of extra items. I don't know much about the specific value items you've mentioned so I'm only assuming that those problems can be solved in a scripting extension.

The reason I thought it might be an interesting idea is that you seem to be using a text editor for most of the creation work anyway, so rather than swapping to another tool, perhaps enhance the tool you have?

Of course, this still opens up all the problems of who is going to develop and maintain it, but it might be easier to develop and support what you need this way rather that the other idea you had of overtaking a whole development piece with a big history and the complications of being a statically compiled code base.

Anyway, it's only really meant to provide food for thought.
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Old 09-25-2013, 04:50 AM   #108
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The current version is FORTRAN 90 I believe and is a dynamic language these days.
There have been Fortran 95, 2003 and 2008 after that. The current version supports object-oriented features too.
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Old 09-28-2013, 11:59 AM   #109
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Since we're allready waaaaay off-topic here, and this is developing to become a programming thread instead, I just wanted to submit this and this. Note particularly the comments about c++ and Python. I've never used COBOL so I can't determine whether the comments about that are justified or not
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Old 09-28-2013, 12:48 PM   #110
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Since we're allready waaaaay off-topic here, and this is developing to become a programming thread instead, I just wanted to submit this and this. Note particularly the comments about c++ and Python. I've never used COBOL so I can't determine whether the comments about that are justified or not
The COBOL part is fairly accurate. They fail to mention that you successfully blew the hole in the foot, because all the other languages would get jealose...
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Old 09-28-2013, 01:08 PM   #111
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Since we're allready waaaaay off-topic here, and this is developing to become a programming thread instead, I just wanted to submit this and this. Note particularly the comments about c++ and Python. I've never used COBOL so I can't determine whether the comments about that are justified or not

I have used at most, 4 of those languages
I hear rumors before...
I see they were true
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Old 09-28-2013, 01:42 PM   #112
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I have used at most, 4 of those languages
I hear rumors before...
I see they were true
I've only used 2 of them, but only because I was tired of doing the same things over and over again manually. So I taught myself the basics and saved a lot of time and nerves.

At least my favorite scripting language (AWK) wasn't listed. So I guess it's still OK to use it.
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Old 09-28-2013, 02:54 PM   #113
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Originally Posted by Iznogood View Post
Since we're allready waaaaay off-topic here, and this is developing to become a programming thread instead, I just wanted to submit this and this. Note particularly the comments about c++ and Python. I've never used COBOL so I can't determine whether the comments about that are justified or not


Looking through those lists makes me realise how many of these languages and systems I've had exposure to. Familiar with all trades, competent in none.
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Old 09-28-2013, 04:45 PM   #114
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Looking through those lists makes me realise how many of these languages and systems I've had exposure to. Familiar with all trades, competent in none.
Did you ever consider a position in Management?
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Old 09-28-2013, 05:33 PM   #115
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Originally Posted by Hitch View Post
[....]I think that most of the people who use Sigil do what we do-edit in another HTML editor [...] and then use Sigil for polishing the ePUB, make the NCX, make the OPF, add the meta, and bob's-yer-uncle, as they say here.

Hitch
For the record, I edit and polish almost exclusively in Sigil. I'm sad to see it go, but 0.7.2 satisfies all my needs as an unpaid ebook producer.
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Old 09-28-2013, 08:17 PM   #116
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"What he is describing basically is a simple* compiler"

Katsunami has got it exactly right. I want a program that I pass to it a directory that represents the contents of the book, and perhaps a configuration file or manifest that defines metadata and other things, and it generates the epub for me. Sounds trivial (I wish!) I did take a brief look at the source. I am (or was) fluent in Pascal, onetime wizard of Z80 assembler, and have an acquaintance with C (my first programming language). My comprehension of C++ is on the same order as my knowledge of ancient Greek. Nil. The code to parse the source files to generate the opf and toc files will not be trivial. It is probably more work than this old and (re)tired programmer wants to take on.

I should also state, that I appreciate the work of the Sigil programmers. They had to choose libraries to use, after all they were building an epub editor, not a text editor. I just wish they had made different choices.
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Old 09-28-2013, 08:39 PM   #117
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It would be something that I'd love to do, as I'm into that sort of technical stuff. But the time it takes... this stuff is not trivial, and if you create it, you maintain it. It's not fun when a maintainer quits because of time constraints (as we can see in the case of Sigil), and I *know* it will happen if I start such a program; it will probably happen before it's fully usable too
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Old 09-28-2013, 10:39 PM   #118
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Originally Posted by Iznogood View Post
Since we're allready waaaaay off-topic here, and this is developing to become a programming thread instead, I just wanted to submit this and this. Note particularly the comments about c++ and Python. I've never used COBOL so I can't determine whether the comments about that are justified or not
Absolutely hilarious. I liked the first link better, being more inclusive. But the second link had ADA, which the first did not. I wonder why.

That said, I am familiar with more of these languages than you young 'uns would admit to. I kept chuckling out loud (no, I won't use the term LOL) until the wife finally had to ask what I was laughing about.

I had to resort to a modification of a well-known meme:

"If you're a programmer, no explanation is necessary. If you are not a programmer, no explanation is possible."

She only codes in HTML.

And I must add, I was TOTALLY OFFENDED at the description of SAS. That was my first exposure to anything like a 4GL, and there isn't much you can't do with it. (at least, within the set of things I wanted to do - statistical analysis, chemical kinetics calculations, and database translations.)

Afterthought re 4GL: wonder why they didn't include LabView. A target-rich environment if ever I saw one.

Last edited by st_albert; 09-28-2013 at 10:42 PM.
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Old 09-28-2013, 11:19 PM   #119
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Use THE expression to cut off any discussion:

"You are not expected to understand this."
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Old 09-28-2013, 11:38 PM   #120
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Use THE expression to cut off any discussion:

"You are not expected to understand this."
I dig that, but...

Not applicable in this specific special case. I gotta live with her for the rest of my life. Prudence dictates....
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