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Old 07-19-2013, 08:51 AM   #16
Mathew Reuther
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Ok, so, I used League Gothic Regular and it was stripped. You indicated that's a go-to font for you, so we're pretty sure that it SHOULD work. So there seems to be some issue that is not the fonts. (Though again, on League Gothic Regular as it did on Condensed, Kindle Previewer kicks out a warning saying it is a Type-1 font. But it's not a fatal error, and the resultant mobi has the font intact. It's not until upload that it is stripped.)

In a past life I used to hack (not code, just monkey with extant pieces to make them do something new) C and I've lost track of the number of times I hunted down a single piece of punctuation. The weird thing is that you would expect it to fail in Previewer if it was going to fail. Makes you wonder what exactly Amazon is doing on their servers... *sigh*

As far as conversion, everything I have tried works just fine except upload to KDP. I can convert via Previewer (which AFAIK is the equivalent of naked KindleGen, just with a GUI) or Calibre and end up with a file that looks perfect. All files included that should be. It is only when I get to the step of pulling the file back down from KDP that the fonts have magically disappeared.

For the fun, here's my .opf (with just League Gothic included):

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8" standalone="yes"?>
<package xmlns="http://www.idpf.org/2007/opf" unique-identifier="BookId" version="2.0">
<metadata xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/" xmlns:opf="http://www.idpf.org/2007/opf">
<dc:identifier id="BookId" opf:scheme="UUID">urn:uuid:f3875132-d23d-4451-b435-4f0a28162caa</dc:identifier>
<dc:title>Day Breaks</dc:title>
<dc:creator opf:file-as="modification" opf:role="aut">Mathew Reuther</dc:creator>
<dc:language>en</dc:language>
<dc:contributor opf:role="aut">Mathew Reuther</dc:contributor>
<dc:publisher>Oakenbrand Press</dc:publisher>
<dc:date opf:event="publication">2013-01-11</dc:date>
<dc:contributor opf:role="cov">Bridgette Reuther</dc:contributor>
<dc:contributor opf:role="tyg">Mathew Reuther</dc:contributor>
<dc:format>application/x-mobipocket-ebook</dc:format>
<dc:language>en</dc:language>
<dc:date opf:event="creation">2013-01-10</dc:date>
<dc:date opf:event="modification">2013-07-19</dc:date>
<dc:contributor opf:role="ill">Bridgette Reuther</dc:contributor>
<meta content="0.7.2" name="Sigil version" />
<meta name="cover" content="Cover.jpg" />
</metadata>
<manifest>
<item href="toc.ncx" id="ncx" media-type="application/x-dtbncx+xml" />
<item href="Styles/core-styles.css" id="core-styles.css" media-type="text/css" />
<item href="Text/TitlePage.xhtml" id="TitlePage.xhtml" media-type="application/xhtml+xml" />
<item href="Text/QuickMenu.xhtml" id="QuickMenu.xhtml" media-type="application/xhtml+xml" />
<item href="Text/Dedication.xhtml" id="Dedication.xhtml" media-type="application/xhtml+xml" />
<item href="Text/Contents.xhtml" id="Contents.xhtml" media-type="application/xhtml+xml" />
<item href="Text/Afterword.xhtml" id="Afterword.xhtml" media-type="application/xhtml+xml" />
<item href="Text/Bio.xhtml" id="Bio.xhtml" media-type="application/xhtml+xml" />
<item href="Text/Copyright.xhtml" id="Copyright.xhtml" media-type="application/xhtml+xml" />
<item href="Text/Description.xhtml" id="Description.xhtml" media-type="application/xhtml+xml" />
<item href="Text/Return.xhtml" id="Return.xhtml" media-type="application/xhtml+xml" />
<item href="Text/Works.xhtml" id="Works.xhtml" media-type="application/xhtml+xml" />
<item href="Images/imprint.jpg" id="imprint.jpg" media-type="image/jpeg" />
<item href="Text/Fonts.xhtml" id="Fonts.xhtml" media-type="application/xhtml+xml" />
<item href="Images/scenebreak.jpg" id="scenebreak.jpg" media-type="image/jpeg" />
<item href="Text/DBChapter1.xhtml" id="DBChapter1.xhtml" media-type="application/xhtml+xml" />
<item href="Text/DBChapter2.xhtml" id="DBChapter2.xhtml" media-type="application/xhtml+xml" />
<item href="Text/DBChapter3.xhtml" id="DBChapter3.xhtml" media-type="application/xhtml+xml" />
<item href="Text/DBChapter4.xhtml" id="DBChapter4.xhtml" media-type="application/xhtml+xml" />
<item href="Text/DBChapter5.xhtml" id="DBChapter5.xhtml" media-type="application/xhtml+xml" />
<item href="Text/DBChapter6.xhtml" id="DBChapter6.xhtml" media-type="application/xhtml+xml" />
<item href="Text/DBChapter7.xhtml" id="DBChapter7.xhtml" media-type="application/xhtml+xml" />
<item href="Text/DayBreaks.xhtml" id="DayBreaks.xhtml" media-type="application/xhtml+xml" />
<item href="Text/PredawnRescue.xhtml" id="PredawnRescue.xhtml" media-type="application/xhtml+xml" />
<item href="Text/Prologue.xhtml" id="Prologue.xhtml" media-type="application/xhtml+xml" />
<item href="Images/Cover.jpg" id="Cover.jpg" media-type="image/jpeg" />
<item href="Fonts/LeagueGothic-Regular.otf" id="LeagueGothic-Regular.otf" media-type="application/vnd.ms-opentype" />
</manifest>
<spine toc="ncx">
<itemref idref="Description.xhtml" />
<itemref idref="TitlePage.xhtml" />
<itemref idref="Works.xhtml" />
<itemref idref="Fonts.xhtml" />
<itemref idref="QuickMenu.xhtml" />
<itemref idref="Dedication.xhtml" />
<itemref idref="PredawnRescue.xhtml" />
<itemref idref="Prologue.xhtml" />
<itemref idref="DayBreaks.xhtml" />
<itemref idref="DBChapter1.xhtml" />
<itemref idref="DBChapter2.xhtml" />
<itemref idref="DBChapter3.xhtml" />
<itemref idref="DBChapter4.xhtml" />
<itemref idref="DBChapter5.xhtml" />
<itemref idref="DBChapter6.xhtml" />
<itemref idref="DBChapter7.xhtml" />
<itemref idref="Return.xhtml" />
<itemref idref="Afterword.xhtml" />
<itemref idref="Bio.xhtml" />
<itemref idref="Contents.xhtml" />
<itemref idref="Copyright.xhtml" />
</spine>
<guide>
<reference href="Text/Contents.xhtml" title="Table Of Contents" type="toc" />
<reference href="Text/Description.xhtml" title="Start" type="text" />
</guide>
</package>

Last edited by Mathew Reuther; 07-19-2013 at 08:51 AM. Reason: Disabling smileys...
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Old 07-19-2013, 10:10 AM   #17
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Being ignorant of the KDP process, I feel it's important for those following along to understand exactly what the nature of the file is that you're "pulling back down from KDP." Is it a dual format file (mobi & kf8) like kindlegen produces, or is it either/or -- like what the customer would recieve when purchasing the ebook?

When you use mobi(kindle)unpack to examine the contents of that file, does it produce both a mobi7 folder AND a mobi8 folder? If there is no mobi8 folder, then the file is mobi7-only and will never have embedded fonts included.

There may be other issues in play, but I can't help thinking that the file you're getting back from KDP might not be what you think it is. But I can't know for certain until someone familiar with KDP can explain the nature of the file(s) you "get back" from them.

In short, I think it's possible that you're looking for embedded fonts in a mobi-only file that will never contain embedded fonts because the format doesn't support them.
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Old 07-19-2013, 11:17 AM   #18
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Another quick question: the fonts aren't obfuscated in the epub being uploaded (or in the epub being fed to kindlgen locally), are they? Amazon adds their own obfuscation (to all fonts) to the finished product. A process that relies on the fonts being un-obfuscated to begin with.
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Old 07-19-2013, 03:10 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DiapDealer View Post
Being ignorant of the KDP process, I feel it's important for those following along to understand exactly what the nature of the file is that you're "pulling back down from KDP." Is it a dual format file (mobi & kf8) like kindlegen produces, or is it either/or -- like what the customer would recieve when purchasing the ebook?

When you use mobi(kindle)unpack to examine the contents of that file, does it produce both a mobi7 folder AND a mobi8 folder? If there is no mobi8 folder, then the file is mobi7-only and will never have embedded fonts included.

There may be other issues in play, but I can't help thinking that the file you're getting back from KDP might not be what you think it is. But I can't know for certain until someone familiar with KDP can explain the nature of the file(s) you "get back" from them.

In short, I think it's possible that you're looking for embedded fonts in a mobi-only file that will never contain embedded fonts because the format doesn't support them.
Diap:

No. What he's getting back is the pre-PW (publishing workflow) final mobi. The only thing that happens after this point is DRM and any finagling that Amazon does with the SRL, etc. The preview mobi that he's DL'ing is a complete, fully-formed, source material + K7 file + K8 file mobi.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DiapDealer View Post
Another quick question: the fonts aren't obfuscated in the epub being uploaded (or in the epub being fed to kindlgen locally), are they? Amazon adds their own obfuscation (to all fonts) to the finished product. A process that relies on the fonts being un-obfuscated to begin with.
No. If he was, the KG wouldn't gen. It would crash and burn. Whatever it is...it's something else. I thought about this too, but any file with an encryption.xml file in it for ePUB won't Genn via KG or KP.

It's interesting.

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Old 07-19-2013, 04:00 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathew Reuther View Post
Ok, so, I used League Gothic Regular and it was stripped. You indicated that's a go-to font for you, so we're pretty sure that it SHOULD work. So there seems to be some issue that is not the fonts. (Though again, on League Gothic Regular as it did on Condensed, Kindle Previewer kicks out a warning saying it is a Type-1 font. But it's not a fatal error, and the resultant mobi has the font intact. It's not until upload that it is stripped.)

In a past life I used to hack (not code, just monkey with extant pieces to make them do something new) C and I've lost track of the number of times I hunted down a single piece of punctuation. The weird thing is that you would expect it to fail in Previewer if it was going to fail. Makes you wonder what exactly Amazon is doing on their servers... *sigh*

As far as conversion, everything I have tried works just fine except upload to KDP. I can convert via Previewer (which AFAIK is the equivalent of naked KindleGen, just with a GUI) or Calibre and end up with a file that looks perfect. All files included that should be. It is only when I get to the step of pulling the file back down from KDP that the fonts have magically disappeared.

For the fun, here's my .opf (with just League Gothic included):

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8" standalone="yes"?>
<package xmlns="http://www.idpf.org/2007/opf" unique-identifier="BookId" version="2.0">
<metadata xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/" xmlnspf="http://www.idpf.org/2007/opf">
<dc:identifier id="BookId" opf:scheme="UUID">urn:uuid:f3875132-d23d-4451-b435-4f0a28162caa</dc:identifier>
<dc:title>Day Breaks</dc:title>
<dc:creator opf:file-as="modification" opf:role="aut">Mathew Reuther</dc:creator>
<dc:language>en</dc:language>
<dc:contributor opf:role="aut">Mathew Reuther</dc:contributor>
<dcublisher>Oakenbrand Press</dcublisher>
<dc:date opf:event="publication">2013-01-11</dc:date>
<dc:contributor opf:role="cov">Bridgette Reuther</dc:contributor>
<dc:contributor opf:role="tyg">Mathew Reuther</dc:contributor>
<dc:format>application/x-mobipocket-ebook</dc:format>
<dc:language>en</dc:language>
<dc:date opf:event="creation">2013-01-10</dc:date>
<dc:date opf:event="modification">2013-07-19</dc:date>
<dc:contributor opf:role="ill">Bridgette Reuther</dc:contributor>
<meta content="0.7.2" name="Sigil version" />
<meta name="cover" content="Cover.jpg" />
</metadata>
<manifest>
<item href="toc.ncx" id="ncx" media-type="application/x-dtbncx+xml" />
<item href="Styles/core-styles.css" id="core-styles.css" media-type="text/css" />
<item href="Text/TitlePage.xhtml" id="TitlePage.xhtml" media-type="application/xhtml+xml" />
<item href="Text/QuickMenu.xhtml" id="QuickMenu.xhtml" media-type="application/xhtml+xml" />
<item href="Text/Dedication.xhtml" id="Dedication.xhtml" media-type="application/xhtml+xml" />
<item href="Text/Contents.xhtml" id="Contents.xhtml" media-type="application/xhtml+xml" />
<item href="Text/Afterword.xhtml" id="Afterword.xhtml" media-type="application/xhtml+xml" />
<item href="Text/Bio.xhtml" id="Bio.xhtml" media-type="application/xhtml+xml" />
<item href="Text/Copyright.xhtml" id="Copyright.xhtml" media-type="application/xhtml+xml" />
<item href="Text/Description.xhtml" id="Description.xhtml" media-type="application/xhtml+xml" />
<item href="Text/Return.xhtml" id="Return.xhtml" media-type="application/xhtml+xml" />
<item href="Text/Works.xhtml" id="Works.xhtml" media-type="application/xhtml+xml" />
<item href="Images/imprint.jpg" id="imprint.jpg" media-type="image/jpeg" />
<item href="Text/Fonts.xhtml" id="Fonts.xhtml" media-type="application/xhtml+xml" />
<item href="Images/scenebreak.jpg" id="scenebreak.jpg" media-type="image/jpeg" />
<item href="Text/DBChapter1.xhtml" id="DBChapter1.xhtml" media-type="application/xhtml+xml" />
<item href="Text/DBChapter2.xhtml" id="DBChapter2.xhtml" media-type="application/xhtml+xml" />
<item href="Text/DBChapter3.xhtml" id="DBChapter3.xhtml" media-type="application/xhtml+xml" />
<item href="Text/DBChapter4.xhtml" id="DBChapter4.xhtml" media-type="application/xhtml+xml" />
<item href="Text/DBChapter5.xhtml" id="DBChapter5.xhtml" media-type="application/xhtml+xml" />
<item href="Text/DBChapter6.xhtml" id="DBChapter6.xhtml" media-type="application/xhtml+xml" />
<item href="Text/DBChapter7.xhtml" id="DBChapter7.xhtml" media-type="application/xhtml+xml" />
<item href="Text/DayBreaks.xhtml" id="DayBreaks.xhtml" media-type="application/xhtml+xml" />
<item href="Text/PredawnRescue.xhtml" id="PredawnRescue.xhtml" media-type="application/xhtml+xml" />
<item href="Text/Prologue.xhtml" id="Prologue.xhtml" media-type="application/xhtml+xml" />
<item href="Images/Cover.jpg" id="Cover.jpg" media-type="image/jpeg" />
<item href="Fonts/LeagueGothic-Regular.otf" id="LeagueGothic-Regular.otf" media-type="application/vnd.ms-opentype" />
</manifest>
<spine toc="ncx">
<itemref idref="Description.xhtml" />
<itemref idref="TitlePage.xhtml" />
<itemref idref="Works.xhtml" />
<itemref idref="Fonts.xhtml" />
<itemref idref="QuickMenu.xhtml" />
<itemref idref="Dedication.xhtml" />
<itemref idref="PredawnRescue.xhtml" />
<itemref idref="Prologue.xhtml" />
<itemref idref="DayBreaks.xhtml" />
<itemref idref="DBChapter1.xhtml" />
<itemref idref="DBChapter2.xhtml" />
<itemref idref="DBChapter3.xhtml" />
<itemref idref="DBChapter4.xhtml" />
<itemref idref="DBChapter5.xhtml" />
<itemref idref="DBChapter6.xhtml" />
<itemref idref="DBChapter7.xhtml" />
<itemref idref="Return.xhtml" />
<itemref idref="Afterword.xhtml" />
<itemref idref="Bio.xhtml" />
<itemref idref="Contents.xhtml" />
<itemref idref="Copyright.xhtml" />
</spine>
<guide>
<reference href="Text/Contents.xhtml" title="Table Of Contents" type="toc" />
<reference href="Text/Description.xhtml" title="Start" type="text" />
</guide>
</package>
Why this, if I may ask?:

<dc:format>application/x-mobipocket-ebook</dc:format>

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Old 07-19-2013, 04:22 PM   #21
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That appears to be a MIME type declaration, Hitch.
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Old 07-19-2013, 06:20 PM   #22
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That appears to be a MIME type declaration, Hitch.
LOL, thanks, Harry! (No, really? {smile})

Yes, I knew that, I was just curious as to why he was declaring the mobi type in the ePUB. I am pondering what could be causing this weirdness. My only thought at the moment is the possibility that (and I've done this often) the OTF and TTF's are mistyped, CASE-wise, either in the manifest, or the OPF, or in the actual font folder, or in the CSS. Now, if they are, that should make ADE not work, either, which is the frustrating part. I may just break down and ask to see the book. ;-)

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Old 07-19-2013, 06:24 PM   #23
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That's correct, it's a mime type declaration added to the metadata. As far as I know it's a "for the form" thing, and not absolutely required, but I place it in the files (epub gets its proper mimetype as well) because I am trying to offer a "proper and complete" metadata section.

And Hitch is of course correct regarding the file I am retrieving after KDP converts it. It is a fully-formed dual spec mobi. Not much goes on after that point, particularly considering I do not enable DRM on any of my files. (Though apparently some reseller partners of some of the places I upload to do, which pisses me off. But that's another issue.)
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Old 07-19-2013, 06:28 PM   #24
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Because this epub is being converted into a mobi. The standard epub that is not being converted is classified as an epub.

It's similar to how I used to put different content in each book based on which reseller I was uploading to. Amazon had links to Amazon book pages, B&N to B&N, etc. I no longer do that, instead linking to pages I control which have links to all resellers. But for a while I make a lot of changes to specific files.

If you want the book, I am very happy to hand it to you with two of the fonts you've verified as working in your experience put in as tests.
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Old 07-19-2013, 06:28 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathew Reuther View Post
That's correct, it's a mime type declaration added to the metadata. As far as I know it's a "for the form" thing, and not absolutely required, but I place it in the files (epub gets its proper mimetype as well) because I am trying to offer a "proper and complete" metadata section.

And Hitch is of course correct regarding the file I am retrieving after KDP converts it. It is a fully-formed dual spec mobi. Not much goes on after that point, particularly considering I do not enable DRM on any of my files. (Though apparently some reseller partners of some of the places I upload to do, which pisses me off. But that's another issue.)
Hey, Matthew:

I think you said you were amenable to this earlier, but would you like to just send me the ePUB? If so, PM me and I'll send you my details.

Hitch

Last edited by Hitch; 07-19-2013 at 06:33 PM. Reason: Duh. Edit typo, "the" to "this"
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Old 07-19-2013, 06:42 PM   #26
Mathew Reuther
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Hey, Matthew:

I think you said you were amenable to this earlier, but would you like to just send me the ePUB? If so, PM me and I'll send you my details.

Hitch
Sure thing!
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Old 07-19-2013, 07:26 PM   #27
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A .mobi file will never work with embedded fonts. You have to submit an .azw3 file.
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Old 07-19-2013, 07:28 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by susan_cassidy View Post
A .mobi file will never work with embedded fonts. You have to submit an .azw3 file.
Susan:

With all due respect, we put out scores of mobi files each month (between 100-150) that work just fine with embedded fonts.

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Old 07-19-2013, 07:53 PM   #29
Mathew Reuther
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Susan, if that were the case, you would think that Amazon would document it, or at least know it to respond to support requests. But since they did not seem to have any issue with the process I described, and since their documentation does not indicate that a specific file type is required in order to upload embedded fonts, I am not really seeing how it would be the case.

But, that said, if you'd care to tell me how to convert .epub to .azw3 I will upload one to KDP and see if it works. I did say I welcomed all suggestions, and I will test them.

[EDIT]

I converted via Calibre and uploaded the file to KDP. The following message was displayed:

Unsupported file format!

Your file is in an unsupported format. Please save your file in one of our supported formats and upload again. Refer to our formatting guide for more information.


A quick look at their supported formats:

Word (DOC or DOCX)
HTML (ZIP, HTM, or HTML)
ePub (EPUB)
Plain Text (TXT)
Rich Text Format (RTF)
Adobe PDF (PDF)

And, of course, they accept .mobi, though they do not list it.

Last edited by Mathew Reuther; 07-19-2013 at 08:07 PM.
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Old 07-19-2013, 08:47 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathew Reuther View Post
Susan, <snip>

I converted via Calibre and uploaded the file to KDP. The following message was displayed:

Unsupported file format!

Your file is in an unsupported format. Please save your file in one of our supported formats and upload again. Refer to our formatting guide for more information.


A quick look at their supported formats:

Word (DOC or DOCX)
HTML (ZIP, HTM, or HTML)
ePub (EPUB)
Plain Text (TXT)
Rich Text Format (RTF)
Adobe PDF (PDF)

And, of course, they accept .mobi, though they do not list it.
Matthew:

Yeah, AZW3 isn't supported in any event for intake. This is a Calibre-ization thing.

Just to confirm, your issue (we've seen other font issues recently, which is why I'm asking this) is that once unpacked, even in the kindlegensrc.zip file, the font files are actually GONE, is that correct? Not simply not displaying?

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