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Old 07-21-2013, 05:36 AM   #16
murraypaul
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But it can run - and indeed, includes for free - a full version of Microsoft Office. There's an awful lot of people out there for whom a device which can run Word and Excel, plus web browsing and email, will be all that they need.
It includes a non-full version of Office, that for example doesn't support macros.
Or you could spend 10-20 dollars on DocumentsToGo for iOS or Android to add Office support to tablets that are otherwise superior.
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Old 07-21-2013, 05:38 AM   #17
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It can be used for /by businesses and here's the official verbage to make sure i don't type anything incorrectly
It can be used by business if they pay for a commercial license, at which point it isn't a free version of Office anymore.
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Old 07-22-2013, 06:00 AM   #18
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It can be used by business if they pay for a commercial license, at which point it isn't a free version of Office anymore.
Is that what it actually says? Or is it saying that if you have a commercial license on another device you can use the RT version for business?

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Old 07-22-2013, 06:32 AM   #19
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So, self-employed people can't use their RT tablet's Office suite for their work?

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Old 07-22-2013, 12:56 PM   #20
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It includes a non-full version of Office, that for example doesn't support macros.
Or you could spend 10-20 dollars on DocumentsToGo for iOS or Android to add Office support to tablets that are otherwise superior.
You are implying that Office is the only advantage the Surface RT has over other tablets and that 3rd party suites are complete Office replacements. Those are false assumptions.

RT is a more powerful OS overall than iOS or Android and the Surface hardware quality is top notch. It has its faults, but it is a very useful device.
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Old 07-22-2013, 05:02 PM   #21
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No doubt that it is useful. Total doubt that it will ever gain much market share. Windows RT is more powerful in what concrete ways?

I can get an awful lot of real work done on an iPad with any BT keyboard and a handful of relatively inexpensive (and yet elegant) apps. And it'll run for a solid 10+ hours. Multi-tasking? Dual windows? I can see how those would improve productivity. But if I'm pushing that hard I'm going to use my HP EliteBook or similar desktop-ish hardware.

Windows RT is the answer to a question very few people are asking. Surface Pro is a different kettle of fish. I want that device to prosper so I can buy the 2nd or 3rd generation, when battery life is up and weight is down.

They need to take a few hundred of these unsold RT's and make a wall of shame in their headquarters. Make it a hall of shame and they can add some Zune's, old Windows CE phones, and XBoxes that RRoD'd on the other side. Please leave room for Office 365...
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Old 07-22-2013, 05:11 PM   #22
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It has its faults, but it is a very useful device.
Except the main reason people buy Windows is to run all their existing Windows software.

Which it can't do.
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Old 07-22-2013, 07:51 PM   #23
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No doubt that it is useful. Total doubt that it will ever gain much market share. Windows RT is more powerful in what concrete ways?
Multitasking, file management and general device support. Standardized USB. Standardized MicroSD storage. Standardized HDMI. Have a printer? It will probably work with no fuss. Same with external storage. Plug in whatever USB mouse or keyboard you want, it will work. It has a PC-level browser. Gestures, once learned, are fast and fluid. It looks and functions almost exactly like Windows 8 except of course for the ability to run x86 programs, which no other ARM tablet does anyway. The Windows Store just passed 100,000 apps, which isn't bad at all in less than a year. More will come.

But what is telling is that you still go to your PC when you need to get things done. With the excellent Type keyboard and the same standard USB wireless mouse I used on my laptop, my RT has completely replaced my laptop for personal mobile use, which I never expected it to. If I really need a PC, the RDP client turns it into a true mini-laptop that will last most of the day on a single charge. That takes good hardware and software. Basically the only time I go back to a PC is when I need a larger screen. In another version or two it could be capable of replacing my work laptop as well. There is a lot of potential in RT.

Update: I should also add the ability to create user profiles just like you do on Windows 8. Each user can log on using a local account or a Microsoft account. With a Microsoft account you can have the same profile on all your Windows 8/RT devices. You don't need a separate device for each family member, provided you don't all need it at the same time. And you can restrict and monitor activity on each account.

Last edited by pl001; 07-23-2013 at 09:37 AM. Reason: addition
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Old 08-31-2013, 09:48 AM   #24
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The back channel firesales of the Surface RT have begun. "Manufacturer refurb" units hit ebay yesterday. There were 3-4 waves of inventory sold (total of a little over 8000 units). Here's the link to one of them (deal is currently dead):

32GB Surface RT w/TouchType case = $199, free shipping.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/32GB-Microso.../171116965994?

I have reason to believe that these refurb units are actually return-to-manufacturer unsold inventory.

It's a terrific deal. I was able to get one last night. Anyone who is interested should monitor that seller should more become available.
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Old 09-11-2013, 07:33 PM   #25
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I received the bundle 2 days ago and have a chance to kick the tires on RT....

Although it came with "refurbished" stickers on it and the box has "refurbished" printed on it, it is indistinguishable from a brand-new unit.

4 hours and 82 updates after opening the box, I was ready to explore.

The build quality is amazing. Head and shoulders better than any other tablet I own... including the iPad4. Surprisingly smooth and responsive. I was surprised by how useful having a multitouch trackpad is on this tablet when the touch cover is attached.

Being able to directly attach my Blue Yeti microphone and have it simply work was a nice thing... (in contrast to the kludgy powered usb hub + usb camera connector required to get it to work with my iPad 4)

Office 2013 RT works nice and is as close to the desktop version as I've seen anywhere.

As expected, apps are the weak point. I don't need a quantity of apps, I just need a "best of" in each category that is on par with what's available on iOS. I don't even care if it is a different app (ie. I don't need WriteRoom ported to W8RT, but something that is as functional would be fine)

Support for microSD and full USB is very welcomed and makes this thing very useful.

The split-personality of Windows 8 is painfully evident on the RT... maybe worse because it is a tablet.

Overall, it is what I expected. It has great potential but I've been using and supporting (technical support) Microsoft products for long enough to know that ultimately this will not end well. Until then, I'll enjoy it.
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Old 09-11-2013, 10:15 PM   #26
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I received the bundle 2 days ago and have a chance to kick the tires on RT....

Although it came with "refurbished" stickers on it and the box has "refurbished" printed on it, it is indistinguishable from a brand-new unit.

4 hours and 82 updates after opening the box, I was ready to explore.

The build quality is amazing. Head and shoulders better than any other tablet I own... including the iPad4. Surprisingly smooth and responsive. I was surprised by how useful having a multitouch trackpad is on this tablet when the touch cover is attached.

Being able to directly attach my Blue Yeti microphone and have it simply work was a nice thing... (in contrast to the kludgy powered usb hub + usb camera connector required to get it to work with my iPad 4)

Office 2013 RT works nice and is as close to the desktop version as I've seen anywhere.

As expected, apps are the weak point. I don't need a quantity of apps, I just need a "best of" in each category that is on par with what's available on iOS. I don't even care if it is a different app (ie. I don't need WriteRoom ported to W8RT, but something that is as functional would be fine)

Support for microSD and full USB is very welcomed and makes this thing very useful.

The split-personality of Windows 8 is painfully evident on the RT... maybe worse because it is a tablet.

Overall, it is what I expected. It has great potential but I've been using and supporting (technical support) Microsoft products for long enough to know that ultimately this will not end well. Until then, I'll enjoy it.
My wife, who is a real technophobe, has gone from an Android tablet to using my old SurfaceRT without any issues. And I really don't see the "split personality" issue. When you use it in tablet mode you just use the modern UI, in desktop mode you use a mouse and keyboard. It is like having 2 in 1, for me it is great. The RT would probably easily cover most people's needs.
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Old 09-11-2013, 11:46 PM   #27
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My wife, who is a real technophobe, has gone from an Android tablet to using my old SurfaceRT without any issues. And I really don't see the "split personality" issue. When you use it in tablet mode you just use the modern UI, in desktop mode you use a mouse and keyboard. It is like having 2 in 1, for me it is great. The RT would probably easily cover most people's needs.
You call it 2-in-1, I call it split-personality.
Either way, I agree with you... it is great.
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Old 09-11-2013, 11:58 PM   #28
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4 hours and 82 updates after opening the box, I was ready to explore.
4 hours of updates?! WOW. I would have exploded by then. That's why I love OS X, the combo updates are really well thought out.
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Old 09-12-2013, 08:39 AM   #29
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4 hours of updates?! WOW. I would have exploded by then. That's why I love OS X, the combo updates are really well thought out.
Yes, that's one of the things I appreciate about OSX also. I run an XP VM under VirtualBox (for those Windows apps that don't run in WINE) and there is always a few updates waiting for me.

Those 4 hours involved a year's worth of updates. Including a completely new version of Office RT. I'm looking forward to 8.1 for RT that will not only include additional optimization for the RT, new features, but the addition of Outlook to the Office suite.

My short experience with Surface RT has been a painful reminder of how woefully lacking in function productivity office apps are on iOS. iOS is part of the Cupertino Reality Distortion Bubble... things look far rosier on the inside of the bubble than out.

I tried an experiment a few weeks ago to see if I could create a full video, including whiteboard animations using solely the iPad4. Not only was it a challenge to get my microphone to work with it, but something as simple as getting iMovie to use a video clip that is NOT in the camera roll is technically impossible.

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Old 09-13-2013, 03:10 PM   #30
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It's Office 2013, which seems to have been favourably reviewed. I use Office 2010 myself every day and haven't encountered any problems with it; what problems are you referring to?
In particular, Office 2010 can't do relative path names in linked graphics, which is an absolute show-stopper.
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