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Old 08-20-2013, 02:13 AM   #31
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Auf dieser tschechischen Webseite wird eine Parlamentsdebatte beschrieben, in der »honigeln« im Sinne von »jemanden Honig um den Mund schmieren« benutzt wird.
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Old 08-20-2013, 02:23 AM   #32
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Ohh... Wie schade. Ich kann gar kein tschechenisch lesen.
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Old 08-20-2013, 02:35 AM   #33
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Die Debatte ist aus den Zeiten, als man da noch kakanisch gesprochen hat...
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Old 08-20-2013, 03:05 AM   #34
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Ich habe noch einmal das allmächtige Google-Orakel befragt und herausgefunden, dass nach Auffassung eines Musil-Experten "hohnigeln" im Wiener Dialekt "verhöhnen" bedeutet, was an anderer sofort bestreitet und ich neige ihm zuzustimmen, ohne sein Argument gelesen zu haben, denn es ist in dem Kontext wahrscheinlicher, dass "gehonigelt" ein weiteres Synonym für "diensteifrig" ist.
Vielleicht gibt es ja in Deiner Uni-Bibliothek die "Germanisch-Romanische Monatsschrift" von 1988. Dann kannst Du auch den Rest des Beitrags lesen.
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Old 08-20-2013, 08:28 AM   #35
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Wahrscheinlich sollte ich ein österreichisches Buch für unser Klassenzimmer nicht gewählt haben.

Auf der Seite 2116 oder 2117 steht "schmälte", dennoch habe ich die Bedeutung in meinem großen Duden gefunden.
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Old 08-20-2013, 04:35 PM   #36
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Ich habe in einem weiteren Ösi-Wörterbuch noch "honigeln-verstümmeln, verunstalten" gefunden
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Old 08-30-2013, 12:04 PM   #37
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Aber vor eines jeden Charakter kann man Achtung haben, sofern er als wahrhafter Mensch strebt, unter strengster eigener Verantwortlichkeit.

Seite 2134

Warum "eines"?
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Old 08-30-2013, 12:24 PM   #38
doubleshuffle
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Wenn man die Wortstellung ändert, wird es klarer: Vor dem Charakter eines jeden (Menschen) kann man Achtung haben...
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Old 08-30-2013, 07:06 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by doubleshuffle View Post
Wenn man die Wortstellung ändert, wird es klarer: Vor dem Charakter eines jeden (Menschen) kann man Achtung haben...

Der Artikel von "Charakter" ist weggelassen.
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Old 08-30-2013, 09:09 PM   #40
doubleshuffle
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Stimmt. Das muss in dieser Konstruktion so sein, und ich denke, das hat dich verwirrt, weil du dachtest, "eines" solle als Artikel zu "Charakter" gehören - und das wäre natürlich ganz falsch; da müsste es natürlich "einem" heißen, weil "Charakter" in diesem Satz im Dativ steht. Deutsch ist keine leichte Sprache...

Ich bin gerade auf der Suche nach weiteren Beispielen für diese Konstruktion:

Des Menschen Wille ist sein Himmelreich.
Des Kaisers neue Kleider.


Mir fällt gerade auf, dass es nur verwirrt, wenn man einen Genitiv mit Artikel vorstellt. Bei Genitiven ohne Artikel würde dir gar nichts auffallen, obwohl dann auch der Artikel des Substantivs wegfällt, auf das der Genitiv sich bezieht:

Spinnis kleines Klassenzimmer, aber: Das kleine Klassenzimmer Spinnis.
Angela Merkels Frisur, aber: Die Frisur Angela Merkels.
Peer Steinbrücks Grinsen, aber: Das Grinsen Peer Steinbrücks.

Umgangssprachlich wird ja der Genitiv viel zu selten verwendet und stattdessen "von" benutzt - Die Brille von Guido Westerwelle - und im Journalisten-Undeutsch die furchtbare Bindestrich-Konstruktion: Die Gabriel-Wampe.

Die Krone der Schönheit und Eleganz ist aber natürlich, wie es in meiner hessischen Heimat gemacht wird, mit Dativ und eingeschobenem Possessivpronomen: Der Claudia Roth ihre Penetranz. Dem Spinni sein Klassenzimmer.

Und all sowas schreibe ich um drei Uhr nachts. Unser Freund pynch hat mir mal senile Bettflucht nachgesagt - er wird sich grinsend bestätigt sehen...
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Old 08-31-2013, 05:20 AM   #41
pynch
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Dem doubleshuffle seine Scharfsicht hat dem pynch seine Belustigung richtig erkannt. -- Ist das den Hessen ihrer Grammatik gemäß gebildet?

Last edited by pynch; 08-31-2013 at 05:26 AM.
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Old 08-31-2013, 07:34 AM   #42
Spinnenmonat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doubleshuffle View Post
Stimmt. Das muss in dieser Konstruktion so sein, und ich denke, das hat dich verwirrt, weil du dachtest, "eines" solle als Artikel zu "Charakter" gehören - und das wäre natürlich ganz falsch; da müsste es natürlich "einem" heißen, weil "Charakter" in diesem Satz im Dativ steht. Deutsch ist keine leichte Sprache...

Ich bin gerade auf der Suche nach weiteren Beispielen für diese Konstruktion:

Des Menschen Wille ist sein Himmelreich.
Des Kaisers neue Kleider.


Mir fällt gerade auf, dass es nur verwirrt, wenn man einen Genitiv mit Artikel vorstellt. Bei Genitiven ohne Artikel würde dir gar nichts auffallen, obwohl dann auch der Artikel des Substantivs wegfällt, auf das der Genitiv sich bezieht:

Spinnis kleines Klassenzimmer, aber: Das kleine Klassenzimmer Spinnis.
Angela Merkels Frisur, aber: Die Frisur Angela Merkels.
Peer Steinbrücks Grinsen, aber: Das Grinsen Peer Steinbrücks.

Umgangssprachlich wird ja der Genitiv viel zu selten verwendet und stattdessen "von" benutzt - Die Brille von Guido Westerwelle - und im Journalisten-Undeutsch die furchtbare Bindestrich-Konstruktion: Die Gabriel-Wampe.

Die Krone der Schönheit und Eleganz ist aber natürlich, wie es in meiner hessischen Heimat gemacht wird, mit Dativ und eingeschobenem Possessivpronomen: Der Claudia Roth ihre Penetranz. Dem Spinni sein Klassenzimmer.

Und all sowas schreibe ich um drei Uhr nachts. Unser Freund pynch hat mir mal senile Bettflucht nachgesagt - er wird sich grinsend bestätigt sehen...
Danke schön mein Malahk.
Diese Konstruktion sehe ich ab und zu in Libretti Wagners, nämlich ein Genitiv am Anfang dann ein Nominativ.
Aber die Präposition "vor" (Gen+Dat) am Anfang des Satzes ist tatsächlich sehr verwirrend für mich, danke vielmals für die Erklärung.
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Old 08-31-2013, 09:05 AM   #43
doubleshuffle
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Dem doubleshuffle seine Scharfsicht hat dem pynch seine Belustigung richtig erkannt. -- Ist das den Hessen ihrer Grammatik gemäß gebildet?
Sehr gut. Glatte Eins!
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Old 09-01-2013, 07:42 AM   #44
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Schließlich hätte man ja auch sozusagen frei und offen bei Tuzzi um die Hand seiner Gattin anhalten können. (Seite 2153)

Was bedeutet "anhalten" hier?
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Old 09-01-2013, 07:46 AM   #45
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Was bedeutet "anhalten" hier?
Einen Heiratsantrag machen bzw. hier um die Einwilligung bitten, jemand zu heiraten.

Last edited by Doitsu; 09-01-2013 at 07:52 AM.
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