Register Guidelines E-Books Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   MobileRead Forums > E-Book Formats > Kindle Formats

Notices

View Poll Results: How often do you get an EPUB when using KindleUnpack to explode a Kindlebook?
80-100% of the time 3 100.00%
60-80% of the time 0 0%
40-60% of the time 0 0%
less than 40% of the time 0 0%
Voters: 3. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 03-07-2015, 11:23 PM   #1
odamizu
maniac
odamizu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.odamizu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.odamizu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.odamizu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.odamizu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.odamizu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.odamizu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.odamizu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.odamizu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.odamizu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.odamizu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 117
Karma: 511098
Join Date: Mar 2015
Device: Kindle Voyage, iOS (retired Sony, Nook)
KindleUnpack: How often get EPUB?

When using KindleUnpack to explode a Kindlebook, how often do you get a mobi8 folder with an EPUB inside?

I've found that maybe 65% of the Kindlebooks I've bought unpack to an EPUB, whereas the rest unpack to mobi7.

I would have thought the percentage of mobi8/azw3/KF8 would be higher. Just wondering if my experience is typical.
odamizu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2015, 12:21 PM   #2
odamizu
maniac
odamizu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.odamizu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.odamizu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.odamizu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.odamizu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.odamizu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.odamizu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.odamizu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.odamizu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.odamizu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.odamizu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 117
Karma: 511098
Join Date: Mar 2015
Device: Kindle Voyage, iOS (retired Sony, Nook)
P.S. I'm particularly interested KindleUnpack results for books bought in the last year.
odamizu is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Advertisement
Old 03-08-2015, 04:51 PM   #3
DiapDealer
Grand Sorcerer
DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
DiapDealer's Avatar
 
Posts: 10,266
Karma: 48563254
Join Date: Jan 2010
Device: Nexus 7, Kindle Fire HD
Quote:
Originally Posted by odamizu View Post
P.S. I'm particularly interested KindleUnpack results for books bought in the last year.
I'm guessing the year the ebook was first available would be more relevant than when they were purchased. The more new (or recently released as e-) books purchased, the better the chances of getting an KF8/AZW3 formatted kindlebook will be.

If you buy primarily backlist books that have been released as ebooks for quite some time, you're likely to get a lot more mobi-only kindlebooks. If they're out and selling in mobi, there's very little incentive for a publisher to go back and update those ebooks to the newer KF8 format (though they occasionally may do so).

If you buy primarily new releases (or at least new-release ebooks) you're probably going to get mostly KF8/AZW3 formatted kindlebooks.

It also depends on how one retrieves their kindlebooks for unpacking. If someone manually downloads all their kindlebook via the "Download & transfer via USB" feature of their Amazon account for use on a device that doesn't support KF8, they'll NEVER unpack as a KF8/EPUB.

All this is just to say that I don't think knowing these percentages you're after is going to be all that useful/relevant.

For what it's worth ... I almost never run into a mobi-only Kindlebook any more. So I'd be about at about a 98+ percent of getting an epub after unpacking my kindle book purchases this year. But then I primarily buy new-release books.

Last edited by DiapDealer; 03-08-2015 at 06:47 PM.
DiapDealer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2015, 07:58 PM   #4
odamizu
maniac
odamizu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.odamizu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.odamizu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.odamizu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.odamizu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.odamizu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.odamizu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.odamizu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.odamizu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.odamizu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.odamizu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 117
Karma: 511098
Join Date: Mar 2015
Device: Kindle Voyage, iOS (retired Sony, Nook)
Thanks! This is exactly what I was trying to figure out, but floundered badly in the asking and in thinking I needed a poll
odamizu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2015, 08:36 PM   #5
JSWolf
Resident Curmudgeon
JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
JSWolf's Avatar
 
Posts: 40,258
Karma: 21899279
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts
Device: Kobo Aura H2O, Sony PRS-650, Sony PRS-T1, nook STR, iPad 4, iPhone 5
Another thing to do is download all of your Mobi only eBooks. You might find some might have been updated and are now KF8.
JSWolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2015, 06:27 AM   #6
Notjohn
Evangelist
Notjohn ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Notjohn ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Notjohn ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Notjohn ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Notjohn ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Notjohn ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Notjohn ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Notjohn ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Notjohn ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Notjohn ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Notjohn ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 419
Karma: 246936
Join Date: Dec 2012
Device: Kindle
The so-called "mobi" file that an author-publisher downloads at Step 7 in the publishing process contains both, plus whatever file the author originally uploaded (seems to vary according to what format that file was in).

As I understand it, Amazon delivers to your Kindle or Fire or app only that file it requires. I've never tried downloading for side-loading, but I would assume that such a download would have to include both formats, for how else would Amazon know which device it was going to?

As posted, books uploaded before the Fire was introduced in the fall of 2011 would almost certainly contain only the mobi format in use when the book was published.

I am a bit tentative about this, because I don't use any media calls for KF8, so there's little or no difference between the Mobi 7 and KF8 versions of my books. (And I've only ever used Kindle Unpack on the "mobi" downloaded from the KDP Bookshelf.)
Notjohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2015, 10:38 AM   #7
JSWolf
Resident Curmudgeon
JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
JSWolf's Avatar
 
Posts: 40,258
Karma: 21899279
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts
Device: Kobo Aura H2O, Sony PRS-650, Sony PRS-T1, nook STR, iPad 4, iPhone 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by Notjohn View Post
I am a bit tentative about this, because I don't use any media calls for KF8, so there's little or no difference between the Mobi 7 and KF8 versions of my books. (And I've only ever used Kindle Unpack on the "mobi" downloaded from the KDP Bookshelf.)
There are some differences between Mobi & KF8 that you might have seen. For example, kF8 supports embedded fonts and proper blockquotes where both the left & right margins are offset. Mob does not allow the right margin to be offset. Also dropcaps is KF8. Graphics can have text next to them as well.
JSWolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2015, 01:04 PM   #8
odamizu
maniac
odamizu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.odamizu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.odamizu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.odamizu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.odamizu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.odamizu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.odamizu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.odamizu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.odamizu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.odamizu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.odamizu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 117
Karma: 511098
Join Date: Mar 2015
Device: Kindle Voyage, iOS (retired Sony, Nook)
When KindleUnpack gives you an EPUB, is it something KindleUnpack puts together from whatever it finds in the azw3 file, or does that mean the author/publisher used an EPUB as the source material and this is an exact copy of that EPUB?
odamizu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2015, 01:51 PM   #9
DiapDealer
Grand Sorcerer
DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
DiapDealer's Avatar
 
Posts: 10,266
Karma: 48563254
Join Date: Jan 2010
Device: Nexus 7, Kindle Fire HD
Quote:
Originally Posted by Notjohn View Post
As I understand it, Amazon delivers to your Kindle or Fire or app only that file it requires. I've never tried downloading for side-loading, but I would assume that such a download would have to include both formats, for how else would Amazon know which device it was going to?
Nope. A dual-format file never reaches the end user (not from the result of an Amazon purchase/download anyway). Only one or the other format gets delivered—based on the device/app's capabilities. Same for downloading with the intent to sideload.

They know which device "Download for Transfer Via USB" is going to because you have to TELL them which of your registered devices you're downloading it for.
DiapDealer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2015, 02:08 PM   #10
DiapDealer
Grand Sorcerer
DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
DiapDealer's Avatar
 
Posts: 10,266
Karma: 48563254
Join Date: Jan 2010
Device: Nexus 7, Kindle Fire HD
Quote:
Originally Posted by odamizu View Post
When KindleUnpack gives you an EPUB, is it something KindleUnpack puts together from whatever it finds in the azw3 file, or does that mean the author/publisher used an EPUB as the source material and this is an exact copy of that EPUB?
KindleUnpack will ALWAYS try put together an EPUB from the source material extracted from a KF8 kindlebook, but that doesn't automatically mean the author started with an EPUB before it was converted to a Kindlebook. It could have been a single html file, or multiple html/css files tied together with an opf file in an OEBPS folder arrangement, or an EPUB. There's no way to know from within the binary kindlebook which way it started out life, so KindleUnpack just goes with EPUB.

An exact copy of the source material can never be reverse-engineered from a binary Kindlebook. The original file names, for instance, can never be recovered since there ARE no file names in the binary KF8 (or mobi for that matter). So those must be programmatically provided. But other than that, KindleUnpack strives not to assume/change anything unless it absolutely has to.
DiapDealer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2015, 04:06 PM   #11
JSWolf
Resident Curmudgeon
JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
JSWolf's Avatar
 
Posts: 40,258
Karma: 21899279
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts
Device: Kobo Aura H2O, Sony PRS-650, Sony PRS-T1, nook STR, iPad 4, iPhone 5
Red face

Quote:
Originally Posted by odamizu View Post
When KindleUnpack gives you an EPUB, is it something KindleUnpack puts together from whatever it finds in the azw3 file, or does that mean the author/publisher used an EPUB as the source material and this is an exact copy of that EPUB?
Most KF8 start off as ePub and get converted to a dual Mobi/KF8 by Kindlegen or by the ePub being sent to Amazon. The BPHs do use ePub as the source for their Amazon eBooks. So most KF8 will follow the mobile ADE specification. It's mostly the self-published eBooks that will break the mobile ADE specification.
JSWolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2015, 06:00 PM   #12
odamizu
maniac
odamizu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.odamizu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.odamizu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.odamizu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.odamizu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.odamizu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.odamizu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.odamizu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.odamizu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.odamizu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.odamizu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 117
Karma: 511098
Join Date: Mar 2015
Device: Kindle Voyage, iOS (retired Sony, Nook)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Notjohn View Post
... I don't use any media calls for KF8, so there's little or no difference between the Mobi 7 and KF8 versions of my books.
I find mobi doesn't render as well as KF8.

When reading on my Kindle Voyage, adjusting line-height works well when it's KF8, but I find the line-height increments too small to be useful to me when the book is mobi format.

Using Kindle for iOS with font set to Helvetica, text from a mobi will look spidery thin and gray whereas text from a KF8 will be solid black. Strangely, this only happens with Helvetica; the other fonts are identical whether it's mobi7 or KF8. Also, this only happens with iOS apps, not Kindle for Mac or Kindle Voyage. I think it's a bug.

I actually use this as a quick test. Before buying a book, I'll download a sample onto my iPad and set the font to Helvetica to see if it's likely to be mobi or KF8.

Last edited by odamizu; 03-09-2015 at 06:02 PM.
odamizu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2015, 06:06 PM   #13
DaleDe
Grand Sorcerer
DaleDe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DaleDe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DaleDe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DaleDe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DaleDe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DaleDe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DaleDe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DaleDe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DaleDe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DaleDe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DaleDe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
DaleDe's Avatar
 
Posts: 10,008
Karma: 6223864
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Grass Valley, CA
Device: EB 1150, EZ Reader, Literati, iPad 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by odamizu View Post
I find mobi doesn't render as well as KF8.

When reading on my Kindle Voyage, adjusting line-height works well when it's KF8, but I find the line-height increments too small to be useful to me when the book is mobi format.

Using Kindle for iOS with font set to Helvetica, text from a mobi will look spidery thin and gray whereas text from a KF8 will be solid black. Strangely, this only happens with Helvetica; the other fonts are identical whether it's mobi7 or KF8. Also, this only happens with iOS apps, not Kindle for Mac or Kindle Voyage. I think it's a bug.

I actually use this as a quick test. Before buying a book, I'll download a sample onto my iPad and set the font to Helvetica to see if it's likely to be mobi or KF8.
You will never get KF8 on an iPad anyway. It supports Mobi7 or AZK. (Check our wiki) but does not support KF8.

Dale
DaleDe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2015, 06:07 PM   #14
odamizu
maniac
odamizu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.odamizu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.odamizu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.odamizu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.odamizu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.odamizu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.odamizu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.odamizu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.odamizu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.odamizu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.odamizu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 117
Karma: 511098
Join Date: Mar 2015
Device: Kindle Voyage, iOS (retired Sony, Nook)
Quote:
Originally Posted by DiapDealer View Post
KindleUnpack will ALWAYS try put together an EPUB from the source material extracted from a KF8 kindlebook, but that doesn't automatically mean the author started with an EPUB before it was converted to a Kindlebook. It could have been a single html file, or multiple html/css files tied together with an opf file in an OEBPS folder arrangement, or an EPUB. There's no way to know from within the binary kindlebook which way it started out life, so KindleUnpack just goes with EPUB.

An exact copy of the source material can never be reverse-engineered from a binary Kindlebook. The original file names, for instance, can never be recovered since there ARE no file names in the binary KF8 (or mobi for that matter). So those must be programmatically provided. But other than that, KindleUnpack strives not to assume/change anything unless it absolutely has to.
Thank you DiapDealer! This is very helpful.

Thanks also JSWolf. I did re-download all my mobis, but sadly, they are still mobis.
odamizu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2015, 06:11 PM   #15
odamizu
maniac
odamizu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.odamizu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.odamizu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.odamizu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.odamizu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.odamizu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.odamizu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.odamizu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.odamizu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.odamizu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.odamizu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 117
Karma: 511098
Join Date: Mar 2015
Device: Kindle Voyage, iOS (retired Sony, Nook)
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaleDe View Post
You will never get KF8 on an iPad anyway. It supports Mobi7 or AZK. (Check our wiki) but does not support KF8.
Now that's interesting. I wonder why I'm getting spidery-gray Helvetica in K4iPad on all books that download as mobi on K4Mac, whereas books that download as KF8 on K4Mac have solid black Helvetica on K4iPad.
odamizu is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
[GUI Plugin] KindleUnpack - The Plugin DiapDealer Plugins 317 04-21-2015 09:45 PM
KindleUnpack: How often get MOBI8? odamizu Kindle Formats 6 03-08-2015 05:00 AM
KindleUnpack (MobiUnpack): Extracts text, images and metadata from Kindle/Mobi files adamselene Kindle Formats 1120 01-16-2015 12:15 PM
epub, ePub, EPUB, warum blos ePub? flowoeB Lounge 5 11-27-2009 09:37 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:28 AM.


MobileRead.com is a privately owned, operated and funded community.