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Old 04-15-2016, 03:13 PM   #1
increduloussus
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How does Dual Touch work?

I'm considering buying the N96 Dual Touch. I'll be using it primarily for reading and annotating .pdfs, some of them scanned .pdfs. I hope to sync my Mendeley file directory to the N96 via Dropbox, and annotate while I read--not sure which app I will use.

Currently I'm using a Kindle DX, which is far too cumbersome to make notes with. So the biggest upside to the Onyx will be the ability to use the stylus. But I also like the feature of capacitive touch, for things like navigating through menus, and for zooming in on .pdf's, especially scanned .pdfs. So most of my time will be spent alternately zooming & navigating through .pdf's, and making annotations with the stylus.

My question is this: How does the Dual-Touch model handle the inputs of capacitive touch and stylus digitizer? I'm worried they might give conflicting inputs, and that the dual-touch model might be frustrating to use in this context. Has Onyx added some UI functionality that allows you to specify which input you are using on the fly? Or perhaps there's a way to turn each input on/off independently through the Android OS?

I can't find it now, but I saw a youtube video of another tablet that has another kind of dual-touch, and it has a feature where hovering the tip of the stylus a few millimeters above the screen disables capacitive touch, so you can rest your hand on the screen while writing. Hoping that the N96 has something like this...

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Old 04-15-2016, 03:14 PM   #2
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Just for reference:

http://www.onyx-international.com/in...ucts/n96-n96ml
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Old 04-19-2016, 06:33 PM   #3
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Well, it looks like I might just be talking to myself here...

But maybe there are others who are interested in this same question, so I figure I'll continue to post what I learn elsewhere. So far, all I have found is this youtube video, which seems to show the kind of conflicting input I was worried about:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rur3NxOx9IY

At about 1:18 the user places their hand on the screen and continues to "scribble". When they lift their hand away from the screen, a mark is visible. They then circle that mark and draw an arrow to it, and finally they make a note about that mark.

I copied the text describing the video to google translate. It auto-detected Japanese, and spit out: "I tried the handwriting function in. For Palm reduction is not attached, it contains the line and get the palm of the hand."

Now, this may be an inevitable issue with the dual-touch interface. On the other hand, the user posting the video may be unaware of the proper way to avoid this. They place their hand on the screen before touching the stylus to the screen--maybe if they had done it the other way around there would be no problem.

...I see that ereader-store.de is temporarily out of the N96 dual touch--so there must be some in use out there! Anyone reading this with knowledge, I'm eager to hear about your experience!

Thanks
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Old 04-19-2016, 07:07 PM   #4
franzli
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Yes, I'd also be interested to learn about this, so thanks for sharing the video! Looks indeed like is not implemented here, which would be a shame.
Palm rejection works very well on tablets and computers with active styli using wacom or similar technology. But it might indeed be a problem with the electromagnetic touch used for the stylus, which may not show the sort of proximity detection necessary for palm rejection? Just guessing though.

But it does seem like they have pressure sensitivity now, can anyone confirm that? Of so, that would be kind of nice, didn't know that was possible with electromagnetic touch...

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Old 04-19-2016, 07:21 PM   #5
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Just realised that wacom is essentially also electromagnetic, so no idea why onyx wouldn't be able to implement pain rejection?

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Old 04-19-2016, 09:07 PM   #6
increduloussus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by franzli View Post
But it does seem like they have pressure sensitivity now, can anyone confirm that? Of so, that would be kind of nice, didn't know that was possible with electromagnetic touch...
Apparently it does have pressure sensitivity, but I'm having a hard time tracking down any details... Here is a description from ereader-store.de:

--------------------------------------------------------------------

ONYX BOOX N96 Dual Touch

Capacitive and Electromagnetic Touch, both are available at the same time. Use your preferred control method immediately;

Capacitive Touch: select, flip page, label and search, more convenient;

Electromagnetic Touch: write with style, draw, take notes, more precise than finger;

Digitizer with stylus

Built in pressure measurement; Stronger pressure increases thickness of line, reduced pressure narrows the line;

Finger Touch

Onyx Boox N96 DT can controlled with fingers thanks to implemented capacitive touch screen technology (Multi touch). Opening and closing of documents, zooming inout, changing of font size, making of annotations, slide over the screen for page-turning, searching, text selection etc. For those operations you don't need to use touch pen any more,which makes operation of the device much more convenient.

--------------------------------------------------------------------


... somewhat cryptic, perhaps because of the translation. I think I understand what they mean. But I want to be sure before I invest in either version of the N96!

Last edited by increduloussus; 04-19-2016 at 09:12 PM.
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Old 04-20-2016, 08:29 AM   #7
hikarushinpo
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Hi, as I have received my N96 dual-touch, I can confirm that you can not disable any of them. Hope they will add this feature in future firmware.

However, it does have palm rejection. Writing while resting your hand on the screen normally does not leave any marks behind. But sometime it can bug out and leave a line as in the video. Basically if you move your palm a lots while writing, then it may happen more easily. Personally I think it's not a big problem.

Though I recommend that you should avoid resting your hand on e-ink screens (except those 13.3 in flexible ones) as they are not as sturdy as LCD screen.
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Old 04-20-2016, 10:31 AM   #8
increduloussus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hikarushinpo View Post
Hi, as I have received my N96 dual-touch, I can confirm that you can not disable any of them. Hope they will add this feature in future firmware.
Yes, I hope so too! Its always hard to make a purchase decision that hinges on features that may--or may not--eventually come from firmware updates!

Quote:
Originally Posted by hikarushinpo View Post
However, it does have palm rejection. Writing while resting your hand on the screen normally does not leave any marks behind. But sometime it can bug out and leave a line as in the video. Basically if you move your palm a lots while writing, then it may happen more easily. Personally I think it's not a big problem.

Though I recommend that you should avoid resting your hand on e-ink screens (except those 13.3 in flexible ones) as they are not as sturdy as LCD screen.
Yes, I suppose its better not to do this. Unfortunately, in real life I'm fairly clumsy with touch interfaces, and I know that I'm likely to make accidental inputs. I'm leaning towards the non-touch version, based on your experience...
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Old 04-21-2016, 11:41 AM   #9
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I emailed Onyx support about this issue, and hoped to hear back about support for palm rejection, etc. The reply doesn't really clear anything up for me, but it was encouraging to get a response. Here is what they have to say:

Quote:
Dear User,

Thanks for your email and support of ONYX BOOX.

Regarding N96 dual touch with capacitive touch & electromagnetic touch/stylus pen, our software will recognize to change the touch mode alternatively. and our capacitive touch support 2-point pinch to zoom.

Hope you enjoy your reading with BOOX e-reader. TKS

best regards
Onyx International Inc.
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